[lit-ideas] Re: Song of Myself
- From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "lit-ideas" <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 11:26:34 -0400
---- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 9/4/2006 10:01:38 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Song of Myself
Well, Phil, perhaps you're right. I've been handicapped by the pseudonymous
nature of the people on Lit-Ideas.
A.A. You've been handicapped by the pseudonymous nature of the people on
Lit-Ideas? Are you fishing for excuses for why your positions don't work?
L.H. They are quiet and secretive about their beliefs
A.A. Who are you referring to?
L.H. until I apply a term they don't like and then they tell me I am all wet.
As it happens I apply my terms to the squeaky wheels and tend to forget the
others. Who froths eloquently from a Leftist/Pacifist standpoint other than
Andreas, Irene/Andy, and Mike? There are one or two others that speak up
angrily from a Leftist point of view from time to time, but they aren't ongoing
or as clear as the others and I tend to lose track of them. I should qualify
that to say that I don't find the political statements of Andreas, Irene/Andy &
Mike at all clear. Mike gets ethereal about his pacifism. Andreas and
Andy/Irene both hate America, Israel and their wars until I point out their
consistent hostility to just America & Israel
A.A. Lawrence, this is a repeat of the punctuation thing from the other list.
You see what you want to see. You see anyone who doesn't think like an Army
recruit as a traitor who hates America. For heaven's sake, you see the
quintessential capitalist, Andrew Carnegie, as a Leftist. Did he hate America,
Lawrence?
L.H. and then they both produce a Militant Islamic organization that they also
hate, usually Al Quaeda. Their Leftism seems clearer than their pacifism but
at times they claim things that are pacifistic -- especially Andy/Irene lately.
In short, your complaint about my imprecise application of the terms Leftism &
Pacifism is in my opinion a response to the imprecise statements coming from
said Leftists and Pacifists. I can't manage to feel guilty about it.
A.A. Nobody needs feelings, Lawrence. Just thoughts. If you don't allow
yourself to see what the other side is thinking you're putting yourself at an
extreme disadvantage.
L.H. The only person on Lit-Ideas that I've met is Austin Meredith, a pacifist
of sorts. He like you, if I recall correctly isn't an utter pacifist. There
are certain situations that would cause you & he to support a war. In your
case you would support war or a surgical strike, if I recall your statements
accurately, against Iran to prevent their acquisition of nuclear weapons. I'm
sorry but I have difficulty seeing you as a pacifist once you've said that. It
seems for both you and Austin more a case of not wanting to fight all the wars
that others want to fight than not wanting to fight any at all. You would go
quite bit further than I would along the path of accepting abuse, dishonor,
minor attacks, before you said ?enough is enough, let?s fight,? but so what?
Disagreeing about the wars we would fight isn't quite the same as disagreeing
over the matter of pacifism.
A.A. I wondered myself how someone can believe in absolute pacifism except
when they don't. In any case, the situation in the world is beyond pacifism
and ideologies. It's about survival. Support war and increase terrorism.
Economist John Kenneth Galbraith was once accused of changing his position when
he got new information. He said, that's correct; what do you do with new
information when you get it?
L.H. I hadn't looked at the Lit-Ideas photos for a while so I did that this
morning. Every photo I looked at from June forward was pseudonymous. The
impression I had (no doubt imaginary) was of people saying, ?If you already
know who I am then you know who I am. If you don't already know who I am then
you really don't need to.?
A.A. Thank you again. Except when you put on your war blinders, you're quite
the intelligent man.
Other related posts: