[guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
- From: "Flor Lynch" <florlync@xxxxxx>
- To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 11:59:21 -0000
DRM = Digital Rights management.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 10:23 PM
Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
Ok, sorry, I know a lot of acronyms, but what is DRM?
Thanks.
--le
----- Original Message -----
>From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 5:06 PM
Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>I think that converting between formats may also be in breech of DRM if
the
> original format was accessible.
>
> Will
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:49 PM
> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>
>
>> .lit and daisy are like apples and oranges. That's like converting
an
>> untagged pdf file into accessible html.
>>
>> Johnnie Apple Seed
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:30 PM
>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>>
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> Yes. DAISY also provides DRM functionality. Perhaps, one solution
for
>> Microsoft would be a utility to convert from .lit to DAISY?
>>
>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
http://ld.net/?nu7i
>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:25 PM
>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>>
>>
>> > ms could go to daisy and ditch .lit.
>> >
>> > Johnnie Apple Seed
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:01 PM
>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
format.
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi Laura, David, Will and all,
>> >
>> > One Microsoft solution I would find acceptable at this point would
be
> for
>> > Microsoft to securely provide a platform on which the .lit format
could
> be
>> > incorporated in to assistive technology products. For instance, FS
>> > Reader,
>> > Victor Reader, and other software could then support the .lit
format in
> a
>> > way that limits copying.
>> >
>> > Some secured PDF files can now be loaded in to Adobe Reader in a
way
> that
>> > is
>> > accessible. It is not possible to save these files in alternate
> formats,
>> > and it is impossible to cut/copy and paste their contents. Though
I
> don't
>> > like these restrictions, accessibility is now provided, so I
support
> their
>> > implementation. Accessibility is provided while the content is
still
>> > protected. The mainstream and assistive tech industries should be
> working
>> > together to insure accessibility. If legislation like Section 508
has
> to
>> > be
>> > used as the stick, then so be it.
>> >
>> >
>> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
>> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>> > All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:35 PM
>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
format.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Can you set bookmarks?
>> >> Can you get a global navigation view of the book, as is possible
with
>> >> VictorReader software?
>> >> Just curious.
>> >> Take care.
>> >> --le
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:16 PM
>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
format.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> on the third point, you are not correct. You can move through
the
> book
>> >>> by
>> >>> chapter, page and some other nav chunks.
>> >>>
>> >>> Johnnie Apple Seed
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:13 PM
>> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
format.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Will,
>> >>>
>> >>> As I understand it, TTS is extremely limited in at least the
>> >>> following
>> >>> ways:
>> >>> 1.
>> >>> Some books don't work with it.
>> >>> 2.
>> >>> Speech quality is sufficiently poor as to bring its practicality
in
>> >>> to
>> >>> question.
>> >>> 3.
>> >>> It is just a straight read, with no capability to navigate
through a
>> >>> book.
>> >>>
>> >>> Am I correct on these three points?
>> >>>
>> >>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>> >>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>> >>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
>> >>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>> >>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>> >>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
>> >>> Freedom!
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:06 PM
>> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
format.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Darrell;
>> >>>>
>> >>>> At the end of the day I'm an advocate for accessibility too, the
> number
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> bugs I've reported to Microsoft regarding accessibility of their
>> >>>> products,
>> >>>> especially Visual Studio, stands testament to that. However, I
> believe
>> >>>> breaking the law is one step too far, especially where there
already
>> >>>> exists
>> >>>> a legal method of making something accessible, in this case the
TTS
>> >>>> plug-in
>> >>>> for Reader. Whilst it may not be my method of choice, it is
legal
> and
>> >>>> does
>> >>>> afford accessibility to the .lit format.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Will
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:45 PM
>> >>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
format.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Hi David,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> OK. Possibly true. When it comes to accessibility, I'm not
afraid
> to
>> >>>> take
>> >>>>> liberties with that definition. If I got in to trouble over
it, I
>> >>>>> would
>> >>>> not
>> >>>>> hesitate to use my blindness as a media/public relations tool.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>> >>>>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems
administrator!
>> >>>>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
>> >>>>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>> >>>>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>> >>>>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
> Freedom!
>> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> From: "david poehlman"
<david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 12:42 PM
>> >>>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
>> >>>>> format.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> > You need to read the drm documentation carefully. You cannot
do
>> >>>> anything
>> >>>>> > you want with a copy of a book that you purchase that is in
>> >>>>> > electronic
>> >>>>> > form
>> >>>>> > such as reverse engineer it. The book in this instance is a
>> >>>>> > piece
>> >>>>> > of
>> >>>>> > software and in order to accomplish what you want, you'd have
to
>> >>>>> > reverse
>> >>>>> > engineer it.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Johnnie Apple Seed
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:07 PM
>> >>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
> format.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Hi Will,
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Hmmm, well, legally, if I purchase a Microsoft E-book file, I
can
> do
>> >>>>> > whatever it is I need to do in order to gain access, for my
own
>> >>>>> > personal
>> >>>>> > use. What probably is not legal is for me to proceed to
> distribute
>> >>>>> > that
>> >>>>> > file to others. I find it amazing that MS Reader does not
permit
>> >>>>> > printing.
>> >>>>> > Sighted people love to take on-screen info and send it to our
>> >>>>> > printers
>> >>>> at
>> >>>>> > work right away. My employer spends lots of money on
consumables
>> >>>>> > for
>> >>>>> > printers!
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>> >>>>> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems
administrator!
>> >>>>> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
>> >>>>> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>> >>>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>> >>>>> > All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
>> >>>>> > Freedom!
>> >>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> > From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:51 AM
>> >>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
> format.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >> Hi;
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> AFAIK, it doesn't allow printing. As an aside, I doubt the
>> >>>>> >> legitimacy
>> >>>> of
>> >>>>> >> using OCR seeing as the TTS plug-in is provided to make
Reader
>> >>>>> >> accessible.
>> >>>>> >> I'm not a legal expert, but would imagine that this would
only
>> >>>>> >> be
>> >>>>> >> permissible in situations where the TTS plug-in offered no
> output,
>> >>>>> >> such
>> >>>>> >> as
>> >>>>> >> .lit files composed of scanned images. I think this is
slightly
>> >>>>> >> different
>> >>>>> >> in the UK, where there is no law governing accessibility of
> eBooks,
>> >>>>> >> and
>> >>>>> >> instead it's left up to the old laws governing photocopying
of
>> >>>>> >> books,
>> >>>> in
>> >>>>> >> which OCR, or at least scanning, of a limited portion of a
book
> is
>> >>>>> >> allowed.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> I am looking into the possibility of getting reader to work
with
> at
>> >>>> least
>> >>>>> >> one of the popular screen readers with a friend from
Microsoft.
>> >>>>> >> Hopefully
>> >>>>> >> something will come out of this.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> Will
>> >>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> >> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 6:12 PM
>> >>>>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
>> >>>>> >> format.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >>> Hi Will and all,
>> >>>>> >>>
>> >>>>> >>> Does MS Reader permit you to print pages from books? If
so,
>> >>>>> >>> has
>> >>>> anyone
>> >>>>> >>> tried this with the virtual printer facilities of K1000 or
>> >>>>> >>> OpenBook?
>> >>>>> >>>
>> >>>>> >>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>> >>>>> >>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems
>> >>>>> >>> administrator!
>> >>>>> >>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
>> >>>>> >>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>> >>>>> >>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>> >>>>> >>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation
Iraqi
>> >>>>> >>> Freedom!
>> >>>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> >>> From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> >>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:03 AM
>> >>>>> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the
*.lit
>> >>>>> >>> format.
>> >>>>> >>>
>> >>>>> >>>
>> >>>>> >>> > Hi;
>> >>>>> >>> >
>> >>>>> >>> > I wouldn't like to say at the moment. The legality of
this
>> >>>>> >>> > is
>> >>>> unsure.
>> >>>>> >> In
>> >>>>> >>> > the U.S. legislation exists that states it's legal to
convert
>> >>>>> >>> > ebooks
>> >>>>> >>> > to
>> >>>>> >>> > another format if they are inaccessible, but the big
question
>> >>>>> >>> > is,
>> >>>>> >>> > by
>> >>>>> >>> > providing a TTS plug-in for Reader, is the format
considered
>> >>>>> >>> > accessible?
>> >>>>> >>> > I
>> >>>>> >>> > know in the UK, you can use OCR to store only a part of a
>> >>>>> >>> > book
>> >>>>> >>> > on
>> >>>> your
>> >>>>> >>> > computer, and this prohibits distribution or alteration
of
>> >>>>> >>> > the
>> >>>>> >>> > content.
>> >>>>> >>> > Outside of the UK and US I don't know anything about the
>> >>>>> >>> > legality
>> >>>>> >>> > of
>> >>>>> >> this
>> >>>>> >>> > sort of situation, and I wouldn't like to offer advice
that
> may
>> >>>>> >>> > mean
>> >>>>> >>> > you
>> >>>>> >>> > break the law and are subsequently open to prosicution.
>> >>>>> >>> >
>> >>>>> >>> > I'm currently discussing the point with some folk from MS
UK,
>> >>>>> >>> > who
>> >>>>> >>> > I
>> >>>>> >>> > suspect,
>> >>>>> >>> > being the format vendor, are in a position to make a
>> >>>>> >>> > judgement
>> >>>>> >>> > on
>> >>>>> >>> > th
>> >>>> e
>> >>>>> >>> > legality. I'll post more when I hear something from MS.
>> >>>>> >>> >
>> >>>>> >>> > Thanks,
>> >>>>> >>> >
>> >>>>> >>> > Will
>> >>>>> >>> > Microsoft MVP (Visual Studio/VC++)
>> >>>>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> >>> > From: "Nektarios Mallas" <nmallas@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> >>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> >>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:47 PM
>> >>>>> >>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the
*.lit
>> >>>>> >>> > format.
>> >>>>> >>> >
>> >>>>> >>> >
>> >>>>> >>> >> Thanks for this.
>> >>>>> >>> >> Do you know if there is any other way to extract the
text
> from
>> >>>>> >>> >> the
>> >>>>> >> *.lit
>> >>>>> >>> >> file and read it in other standard programs?
>> >>>>> >>> >>
>> >>>>> >>> >> Nektarios.
>> >>>>> >>> >>
>> >>>>> >>> >>
>> >>>>> >>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>> >>> >> From: guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
>> >>>>> >>> >> Behalf
>> >>>>> >>> >> Of Will Pearson
>> >>>>> >>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:55 PM
>> >>>>> >>> >> To: guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>> >>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the
*.lit
>> >>>> format.
>> >>>>> >>> >>
>> >>>>> >>> >>
>> >>>>> >>> >> Hi;
>> >>>>> >>> >>
>> >>>>> >>> >> Whilst MS Reader isn't supported by any of the screen
> readers,
>> >>>> there
>> >>>>> >>> >> is
>> >>>>> >>> >> a plug in. Microsoft have provided a text to speech
plug in
>> >>>>> >>> >> for
>> >>>>> >>> >> Reader
>> >>>>> >>> >> that will read aloud the document. It's based on MS
SAPI,
> and
>> >>>>> >>> >> uses
>> >>>>> >>> >> the
>> >>>>> >>> >> standard SAPI synth that ships with Windows. You can
find a
>> >>>> download
>> >>>>> >>> >> for this from the Reader downloads page.
>> >>>>> >>> >>
>> >>>>> >>> >> Will
>> >>>>> >>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> >>> >> From: "Nektarios Mallas" <nmallas@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> >>> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>>> >>> >> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 6:39 AM
>> >>>>> >>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
>> >>>>> >>> >> format.
>> >>>>> >>> >>
>> >>>>> >>> >>
>> >>>>> >>> >> > Hello list.
>> >>>>> >>> >> > Is Microsoft ebook reader accessible by screen
readers? Is
>> >>>>> >>> >> > there
>> >>>>> >>> >> > any
>> >>>>> >>> >> > other way to access a *.lit file and extract the text
from
> it
>> >>>>> >>> >> > so
>> >>>>> >>> >> > you
>> >>>>> >>> >> > can read it with standard applications such as
wordpad?
>> >>>>> >>> >> > Thanks.
>> >>>>> >>> >> > Nektarios.
>> >>>>> >>> >> >
>> >>>>> >>> >> >
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>> >
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>> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>> > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>> > ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > ** and in the Subject line type
>> > ** unsubscribe
>> > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>> > ** immediately-following link:-
>> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>> > ** or send a message, to
>> > ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>> >
>> > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>> > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>> > ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > ** and in the Subject line type
>> > ** unsubscribe
>> > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>> > ** immediately-following link:-
>> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>> > ** or send a message, to
>> > ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>>
>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> ** and in the Subject line type
>> ** unsubscribe
>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>> ** immediately-following link:-
>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>> ** or send a message, to
>> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>>
>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
>> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> ** and in the Subject line type
>> ** unsubscribe
>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
>> ** immediately-following link:-
>> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
>> ** or send a message, to
>> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>>
>
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
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