[guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
- From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 22:06:50 -0000
I think that converting between formats may also be in breech of DRM if the
original format was accessible.
Will
----- Original Message -----
From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:49 PM
Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
> .lit and daisy are like apples and oranges. That's like converting an
> untagged pdf file into accessible html.
>
> Johnnie Apple Seed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:30 PM
> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> Yes. DAISY also provides DRM functionality. Perhaps, one solution for
> Microsoft would be a utility to convert from .lit to DAISY?
>
> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:25 PM
> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>
>
> > ms could go to daisy and ditch .lit.
> >
> > Johnnie Apple Seed
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:01 PM
> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
> >
> >
> > Hi Laura, David, Will and all,
> >
> > One Microsoft solution I would find acceptable at this point would be
for
> > Microsoft to securely provide a platform on which the .lit format could
be
> > incorporated in to assistive technology products. For instance, FS
> > Reader,
> > Victor Reader, and other software could then support the .lit format in
a
> > way that limits copying.
> >
> > Some secured PDF files can now be loaded in to Adobe Reader in a way
that
> > is
> > accessible. It is not possible to save these files in alternate
formats,
> > and it is impossible to cut/copy and paste their contents. Though I
don't
> > like these restrictions, accessibility is now provided, so I support
their
> > implementation. Accessibility is provided while the content is still
> > protected. The mainstream and assistive tech industries should be
working
> > together to insure accessibility. If legislation like Section 508 has
to
> > be
> > used as the stick, then so be it.
> >
> >
> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
http://ld.net/?nu7i
> > All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:35 PM
> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
> >
> >
> >> Can you set bookmarks?
> >> Can you get a global navigation view of the book, as is possible with
> >> VictorReader software?
> >> Just curious.
> >> Take care.
> >> --le
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:16 PM
> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
> >>
> >>
> >>> on the third point, you are not correct. You can move through the
book
> >>> by
> >>> chapter, page and some other nav chunks.
> >>>
> >>> Johnnie Apple Seed
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:13 PM
> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Will,
> >>>
> >>> As I understand it, TTS is extremely limited in at least the following
> >>> ways:
> >>> 1.
> >>> Some books don't work with it.
> >>> 2.
> >>> Speech quality is sufficiently poor as to bring its practicality in to
> >>> question.
> >>> 3.
> >>> It is just a straight read, with no capability to navigate through a
> >>> book.
> >>>
> >>> Am I correct on these three points?
> >>>
> >>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> >>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:06 PM
> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Darrell;
> >>>>
> >>>> At the end of the day I'm an advocate for accessibility too, the
number
> >>>> of
> >>>> bugs I've reported to Microsoft regarding accessibility of their
> >>>> products,
> >>>> especially Visual Studio, stands testament to that. However, I
believe
> >>>> breaking the law is one step too far, especially where there already
> >>>> exists
> >>>> a legal method of making something accessible, in this case the TTS
> >>>> plug-in
> >>>> for Reader. Whilst it may not be my method of choice, it is legal
and
> >>>> does
> >>>> afford accessibility to the .lit format.
> >>>>
> >>>> Will
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:45 PM
> >>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi David,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> OK. Possibly true. When it comes to accessibility, I'm not afraid
to
> >>>> take
> >>>>> liberties with that definition. If I got in to trouble over it, I
> >>>>> would
> >>>> not
> >>>>> hesitate to use my blindness as a media/public relations tool.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >>>>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >>>>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >>>>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> >>>>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >>>>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 12:42 PM
> >>>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > You need to read the drm documentation carefully. You cannot do
> >>>> anything
> >>>>> > you want with a copy of a book that you purchase that is in
> >>>>> > electronic
> >>>>> > form
> >>>>> > such as reverse engineer it. The book in this instance is a piece
> >>>>> > of
> >>>>> > software and in order to accomplish what you want, you'd have to
> >>>>> > reverse
> >>>>> > engineer it.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Johnnie Apple Seed
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:07 PM
> >>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
format.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Hi Will,
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Hmmm, well, legally, if I purchase a Microsoft E-book file, I can
do
> >>>>> > whatever it is I need to do in order to gain access, for my own
> >>>>> > personal
> >>>>> > use. What probably is not legal is for me to proceed to
distribute
> >>>>> > that
> >>>>> > file to others. I find it amazing that MS Reader does not permit
> >>>>> > printing.
> >>>>> > Sighted people love to take on-screen info and send it to our
> >>>>> > printers
> >>>> at
> >>>>> > work right away. My employer spends lots of money on consumables
> >>>>> > for
> >>>>> > printers!
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >>>>> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >>>>> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >>>>> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> >>>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >>>>> > All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
> >>>>> > Freedom!
> >>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> > From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:51 AM
> >>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
format.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >> Hi;
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> AFAIK, it doesn't allow printing. As an aside, I doubt the
> >>>>> >> legitimacy
> >>>> of
> >>>>> >> using OCR seeing as the TTS plug-in is provided to make Reader
> >>>>> >> accessible.
> >>>>> >> I'm not a legal expert, but would imagine that this would only be
> >>>>> >> permissible in situations where the TTS plug-in offered no
output,
> >>>>> >> such
> >>>>> >> as
> >>>>> >> .lit files composed of scanned images. I think this is slightly
> >>>>> >> different
> >>>>> >> in the UK, where there is no law governing accessibility of
eBooks,
> >>>>> >> and
> >>>>> >> instead it's left up to the old laws governing photocopying of
> >>>>> >> books,
> >>>> in
> >>>>> >> which OCR, or at least scanning, of a limited portion of a book
is
> >>>>> >> allowed.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> I am looking into the possibility of getting reader to work with
at
> >>>> least
> >>>>> >> one of the popular screen readers with a friend from Microsoft.
> >>>>> >> Hopefully
> >>>>> >> something will come out of this.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Will
> >>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> >> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 6:12 PM
> >>>>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
> >>>>> >> format.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>> Hi Will and all,
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>> Does MS Reader permit you to print pages from books? If so, has
> >>>> anyone
> >>>>> >>> tried this with the virtual printer facilities of K1000 or
> >>>>> >>> OpenBook?
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >>>>> >>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >>>>> >>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >>>>> >>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> >>>>> >>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >>>>> >>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
> >>>>> >>> Freedom!
> >>>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> >>> From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> >>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:03 AM
> >>>>> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
> >>>>> >>> format.
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>> > Hi;
> >>>>> >>> >
> >>>>> >>> > I wouldn't like to say at the moment. The legality of this is
> >>>> unsure.
> >>>>> >> In
> >>>>> >>> > the U.S. legislation exists that states it's legal to convert
> >>>>> >>> > ebooks
> >>>>> >>> > to
> >>>>> >>> > another format if they are inaccessible, but the big question
> >>>>> >>> > is,
> >>>>> >>> > by
> >>>>> >>> > providing a TTS plug-in for Reader, is the format considered
> >>>>> >>> > accessible?
> >>>>> >>> > I
> >>>>> >>> > know in the UK, you can use OCR to store only a part of a book
> >>>>> >>> > on
> >>>> your
> >>>>> >>> > computer, and this prohibits distribution or alteration of the
> >>>>> >>> > content.
> >>>>> >>> > Outside of the UK and US I don't know anything about the
> >>>>> >>> > legality
> >>>>> >>> > of
> >>>>> >> this
> >>>>> >>> > sort of situation, and I wouldn't like to offer advice that
may
> >>>>> >>> > mean
> >>>>> >>> > you
> >>>>> >>> > break the law and are subsequently open to prosicution.
> >>>>> >>> >
> >>>>> >>> > I'm currently discussing the point with some folk from MS UK,
> >>>>> >>> > who
> >>>>> >>> > I
> >>>>> >>> > suspect,
> >>>>> >>> > being the format vendor, are in a position to make a judgement
> >>>>> >>> > on
> >>>>> >>> > th
> >>>> e
> >>>>> >>> > legality. I'll post more when I hear something from MS.
> >>>>> >>> >
> >>>>> >>> > Thanks,
> >>>>> >>> >
> >>>>> >>> > Will
> >>>>> >>> > Microsoft MVP (Visual Studio/VC++)
> >>>>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> >>> > From: "Nektarios Mallas" <nmallas@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> >>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> >>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:47 PM
> >>>>> >>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
> >>>>> >>> > format.
> >>>>> >>> >
> >>>>> >>> >
> >>>>> >>> >> Thanks for this.
> >>>>> >>> >> Do you know if there is any other way to extract the text
from
> >>>>> >>> >> the
> >>>>> >> *.lit
> >>>>> >>> >> file and read it in other standard programs?
> >>>>> >>> >>
> >>>>> >>> >> Nektarios.
> >>>>> >>> >>
> >>>>> >>> >>
> >>>>> >>> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> >>> >> From: guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
> >>>>> >>> >> Behalf
> >>>>> >>> >> Of Will Pearson
> >>>>> >>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:55 PM
> >>>>> >>> >> To: guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> >>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
> >>>> format.
> >>>>> >>> >>
> >>>>> >>> >>
> >>>>> >>> >> Hi;
> >>>>> >>> >>
> >>>>> >>> >> Whilst MS Reader isn't supported by any of the screen
readers,
> >>>> there
> >>>>> >>> >> is
> >>>>> >>> >> a plug in. Microsoft have provided a text to speech plug in
> >>>>> >>> >> for
> >>>>> >>> >> Reader
> >>>>> >>> >> that will read aloud the document. It's based on MS SAPI,
and
> >>>>> >>> >> uses
> >>>>> >>> >> the
> >>>>> >>> >> standard SAPI synth that ships with Windows. You can find a
> >>>> download
> >>>>> >>> >> for this from the Reader downloads page.
> >>>>> >>> >>
> >>>>> >>> >> Will
> >>>>> >>> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> >>> >> From: "Nektarios Mallas" <nmallas@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> >>> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> >>> >> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 6:39 AM
> >>>>> >>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
> >>>>> >>> >> format.
> >>>>> >>> >>
> >>>>> >>> >>
> >>>>> >>> >> > Hello list.
> >>>>> >>> >> > Is Microsoft ebook reader accessible by screen readers? Is
> >>>>> >>> >> > there
> >>>>> >>> >> > any
> >>>>> >>> >> > other way to access a *.lit file and extract the text from
it
> >>>>> >>> >> > so
> >>>>> >>> >> > you
> >>>>> >>> >> > can read it with standard applications such as wordpad?
> >>>>> >>> >> > Thanks.
> >>>>> >>> >> > Nektarios.
> >>>>> >>> >> >
> >>>>> >>> >> >
> >>>>> >>> >> > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following
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> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
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