Ukrainian involvement in WWII is not particularly complex, although it has
been made murky through the myth-building of Nazi collaborators,
sympathisers, and their descendants over the years. OUN-UPA were involved
in some of the most horrific war crimes of the period outside the Reich
You're going to have to provide references when you spout figures like "20+
million Orthodox Christian victims of the Bolsheviks". Almost every
statistic on the alleged victims of the Bolsheviks/Soviets has been
massively inflated by coordinated anticommunist propaganda efforts directed
by western intelligence agencies since the beginning of the Cold War. As
the proprietor of Wikispooks, you of all people should be well aware of
this. Or perhaps you succumb to your confirmation bias and respect only the
sources that reinforce your irrational beliefs about Jews.
You may think yourself well read, but your pompous manner belies your
wilful ignorance. Your understanding of the world has hardly blossomed
during your decades of "research" - I fear, rather, it has curdled.
The "entire subject area [of a world Jewish conspiracy] is verboden"?
Hardly. You will find a multitude of websites such as 4chan and Stormfront
full of your intellectual equals, eager to discuss the topic. You and Chien
Fume would fit right in. The fact that most of society is uninterested in
such twaddle is hardly censorship, even if it offends your sensibilities.
On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Peter Presland <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 04/06/2016 19:58, LEACHMAN Cliff wrote:
Wow what a tale! Always interesting to read alternate viewpoints. Cheers
My fathers Ukrainian/Polish/Jewish family was, for the most part
completely wiped out during WW2.
Ukraine involvement in WWII is both murky and complex. The loss of one's
near family gives justifiable emotional bias to one's understanding and
belief, but tends to cloud objectivity. But remember, there are also
vast numbers of people with with similar biases against their perceived
*Jewish* tormentors. For example the 20+ million Orthodox Christian
victims of the Bolsheviks. It is an indisputable historical fact that
the leadership of the Bolsheviks was dominated by Jews - Putin put it at
80% in an address to Russian Jews last year. One's understanding
blossoms when that little gem is contemplated.
But again, the entire subject area is verboden. Why???
On 2016-06-04, at 7:36 AM, Samuel Birbeck wrote:that I
Fuck off Peter.
On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Peter Presland <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
You confirm the assessment implied in my original reply below.
you are a quintessentially modern young(ish) example of the Israeli
Hasbara in in action. I confess that my reply was provocative;
my intention. It was done to elicit precisely the sort of reply
FIexpected and got, ie pure demeaning ad-hominem with zero substance.
you(in case you have missed the odd earlier post of mine - and since
full-timeraise the matter with your tar-baby remark), I am considerably older
than you and warrant that I have spent the past 15 years in
fromstudy of modern history in which pre-war German and dissident Anglo
policy/opinion, together with so-called 'revisionist' post war
research/opinion is given similar weight to those of the current
My understanding of historical fact is therefore vastly different
reasonableyours. And that would be fine were the differences open to
todebate and discourse, but of course they are not. Only one
interpretation is allowed. It is of the 'Jews as history's eternal
victims - a victimhood that reached its apotheosis in "The
As long as that is accepted (which in practice means supported and
promoted as well), everything else is OK for debate. But I do NOT
it and, since my evidence and reasons are so profoundly unsettling
evidence. Iour current Jewish dominated (or at least fawningly supportive)
establishment, ad-hominem attack is all the Hasbara are left with.
I recognise I may be wrong in some of my interpretation of
http://mouqawamahmusic.net/the-fake-6-million-vs-the-real-29-million-jewish-lies-jewish-crimes-and-the-collapse-of-the-jewish-discourse-paradigm/expect the same from others. My interpretation is not dissimilar
And here is an example of the outrageous deceptions of the Victors:
And here is his sister's take on her bother Adolf Hitler.
All that I seek is open debate on the sort of evidence presented
instead of which I get a patronising ad-hominem - A microcosm of the
situation prevailing in the somnambulant West generally.
"The Holocaust" narrative remains the primary enabler of a powerful
taboo which renders open discussion of Jewish ethno-centric Power
alsoits excercise throughout the 20th century right up to today
absent serious adverse consequences. That is a damning indictment
You have an interesting take on 'chosenness' but, as you surely must
know, it is a mere fragment of Judaic teaching on the matter. It
asobfuscates less pleasant strands of Jewish indentity politics, such
-yelling 'antisemite' at the first hint of effective taboo-challenge
proposewhich, couched in a veneer of elegant discourse, is exactly what you
did. But no matter; I count it as another badge of honour and
observationsthat its meaning be revised from 'someone who doesn't like Jews'
infinately more accurate 'someone who Jews don't like'.
On 02/06/2016 19:50, Chien Fume wrote:
> Hi Doug. Glad you made is back from France. Interesting
be> about what's really going on there. Leaders around the world seem
> determined to make life tough for normal people. At exactly the
> in history when it's possible to improve the living conditions
> everyone, and to ensure genuine liberty, the power elite and the
> hypnotized chickens with iPhones and designer clothes have
> roll everything back to 7th century savagery.
> I'm watching the latest Adam Curtis documentary "Bitter Lake"
> first time. I always need to watch Curtis' films at least three
> more. As usual, Curtis opens a perspective that does a splendid
> explaining things. He's always seemed to be one of the most honest
> reporters I can think of. All his documentaries are worth
> I'm also listening to the audio book of A.E. Van Vogt's 'World
> A'. I've been studying General Semantics for a long time. Some
> concepts were even part of my education. So the book is
> many levels.
> Interesting bit you wrote about the fiction works you've read. How
> they're affecting you. We often get more from fiction than from
> When people describe dramatic real-life events, they'll often
> was like a movie'. If you've ever been in a real gun battle,
> it's true that things seem to slow down. You don't really hear the
> gunfire as you do when on the shooting range. Afterwards, when
> the 'after-action report' the words often come out in a mechanical
> way... like a third-person observer robot. The language tends to
(or> artificial... perhaps because there's a psychological need to
> oneself from what happened. But, when having a few Black & Tans
written> Coors) and talking about it with others, the language is
> honest (I think). Leading some to suggest that we forego the
secretary> report and go straight to the Black & Tan chat... let some
writing> make a transcript. By the way, whenever possible, I prefer
> - difficult to find in Israel.
> I think Walter Benjamin addressed some of these ideas about how
> changed how we see the world. He was quite insightful in his
film> about cinema (still in its early stages at the time). I'm going
> what I can find online from the book 'From Caligari to
> cinema became so important to the Nazis... eventually surpassing
> Films like 'Jud Sus' and 'Der Ewige Jude' were considered factual
> documentaries and were required study for prison guards. It was
Nazis> that put the fine point on the psychological conditioning the
they're> learned from Le Bon and Bernays (and Schopenhauer). Today, those
> are systematized and so integral to modern social media that
his> like water to a fish (invisible).
> I'm re-reading McLuhan's 'Understanding Media' and appreciating
grad> insight and foresight.
> I've decided to NOT respond to the rhetorical questions and silly
> statements of Peter. I've had enough of such tar-baby arguments.
> citations ought to suffice. Especially the '25 Points' document.
> 'Mein Kampf' years ago... studied parts of it in undergrand and
Unlike> school. Now it's officially back in the world and we'll see what
> of that. The Muslims are avid readers of this book.
> A few years ago, I had a young Arab guy from Hevron start
talking to me
> about Hitler. He was well informed and thought highly of him.
a> most Jews, I acknowledge Hitler's brilliance and mastery of
> hate what he did, but think it's foolish to call him deranged.
> voice to sentiments that were common in the world... many from
> Today, more people think the same way about Jews than in
> time. I don't believe it's justified since the things they talk
> are almost always part of the Human Process (that is, common to
> Mostly, people don't understand Judaism... and this is because
> don't understand it! It's not a noun, but a verb. It's a way of
> based on freedom and arguing about everything. That, to me, isn't
to> condemnation. Abraham was the first Anarcho-Libertarian. Ayn Rand
> would've gotten along just fine with him (as far as she was able
> along with anyone). All that 'cosen people' stuff is
> question to ask is 'chosen for what, exactly?' I say, chosen to be
> stubborn, argumentative, and refusing to bow down to arbitrary
> Back to your French trip. I've wanted to visit Paris since I was a
> teenager. I wanted to go to the restaurant Au Chien Qui Fume,
> of my favorite mystical philosopher writers Crowley spent so
> I also wanted to see if the French 'Sisters of Mercy' lived up
> But those 'wandervogel' days are long gone and now my focus is on
> visiting as much of Israel as I can before I'm not allowed to go
of> ancient Jewish places. This is a troubling reality... the number
of> places I can visit without any trouble has decreased
> the past nearly 12 years. In the near future, I'll be forbidden,
> from freely traveling in large parts of Judea and Samaria.
> Thanks for your insights and suggestions. Will do my best to find
> information on the works you mention.
> As my friend Robert Anton Wilson would often say, 'Keep the
> All the best...
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:06 PM, douglas rankine
> Hi Chien & Peter,
> Whilst on holiday in France and completely oblivious to the
> on between the government and workers of the country...until
> time to get petrol to get home...:-). I was lucky to find
some in a
> garage in the middle of France. Apparently the Socialist
> Hollande of France was in the process of teaching the workers
and> France all about improving democracy and socialism by
> new laws which extended the working week from 35 hours to 64
being> cutting back on pensions, increasing the pensionable age,
> it easier for employers to sack people so that the employers
> be induced to employ more workers and help expand the
> make working people better off...:-). The workers of France
> particularly pleased with the way in which the lessons are
in> taught, neither are they very pleased with the intended
> fact they have found Hollande's conclusions quite
> will pardon the pun...:-).
> In between my housing project and other researches, I read
> books which you may...or there again...may not be interested
> One was a trilogy of books by Ken Follett, called the Century
> Trilogy, Fall of Giants and its follow ups, and the other was
and> biography of Gertrude Bell by Georgina Howell.
> The trilogy by Follett is a fictional work of history, which
> with some of the main events taken from conventional history
> 19th and 20th century right up until the 1980s. What I like
> this series of books is how well the history is researched
> well the novels are put together, with a linking of fictional
> characters, families and situations tied in with historic
> They make the lives of people at the time come alive
> particular I would like to draw both of your attentions to the
> period leading up to and between the 1st and 2nd World Wars,
> UK. Palestine, the creation of the state of Israel, the
> of power in Germany by the NSDAP, the USA and protectionism
Eastern> interference, Russia the defeat of the Tzar and the landed
> aristocracy, the takeover by the Bolsheviks and the creation
> Soviet Union and the creation of a number of new Middle
the> States when the geographical lines and political entities were
> redrawn as a result of the Versailles Treaty and various other
> aspects of secret diplomacy. He looks at the abstract
> beliefs of politics and philosophies, which governed the
> the time, and how the various ruling classes, circles and
> establishments interpreted them; and with the use of some
> characters introduces the reader to the practical happenings
> from real events which occurred in all of those countries at
and> actual time. History turns out not quite what it seems, or
> was supposed to turn out. His fictional history of the ups
very> downs of a German family in the years from 1933 to 1945 in
> I found particularly interesting.
> The work by Georgina Howell, is a much more factual historical
> account of a very unusual woman, Gertrude Bell, and how she,
> background of the ruling English UK establishment played a
three> important role in formulating UK foreign policy in the
> in particular the Arab, Moslem countries during the first
a> decades of the 20th century. She was not only a polymath and
of> British Spy, she was a great mountain climber, walker and
> of countries throughout the Middle East, working very
> the Arab Moslems, the many tribes of Bedouins and the various
> countries and personalities who were involved in the creation
Middle> Iraq at the time, including Winston Churchill, Balfour and
> of Arabia. She managed to survive through all of the male
> and prejudices put in her way, trying to prevent her from
> about Arab and Moslem culture and attempts to subdue her by
> authorities, from Government Ministers to Arab Sheiks, even
> trusted by some of them. Her reports were much valued at
> and are an important part of the historical record of the
time.> East and the British and French ruling class ideas at the
> For more on Gertrude Bell, her history, background, the role
the> played and the reports she produced, you can find out on
> in Wikipedia.
> See url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_Bell
> I must say, I do love fiction in all its forms and think that
> historical fiction is one of the best ways of explaining all
> good and bad in the world...and gives the writer so much
> accommodate their own views and interpretations of the
> universe and what it is all about.
> I was thinking about doing a treatise on the superior Aryan
> how it dealt with the Biblical Chosen people, and how their
> line and intellectual, political, philosophical and practical
> activities made them think that they were superior, and how
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0008_0_08075.html> Chosen people came to be chosen, and how I cannot be one of
> them...but then I thought...can I be bothered, I would
> as I am, unenlightened, stupid, full of prejudices, dogmatism,
> contrariness, ignorance, hypocrisy...and in deep shit most
> time...but at least I am happy in the shit...it can be a
> place to be in...and most people avoid delving in the
> they have a penchant for it...:-).
> Cest la vie.
> On 08/05/2016 16:44, Peter Presland wrote:
> On 08/05/2016 10:57, Chien Fume wrote:
> Doug - You've provided a good overview of the issue.
> summary is
> found here:
his> It might have more credence in some quarters since
> from a
> 'Jewish' source.
> It's interesting to watch how people are reacting to
> well-documented historical event. In Israel, it's
> uproar and
> shown the extent to which most people are
> perhaps, so
> troubled by the facts that they must resort to
> (but clearly foolish) denial.
> There was enormous, often violent opposition to the
> to get Jews
> to go to Palestine. The super-religious were the
> all and simply
> refused to acknowledge the plain facts regarding
> NSDAP was
> So tell us Chien, what exactly was the NSDAP planning?
> One influential Rabbi who strongly opposed
> for massive aliyah lived just long enough to regret
benefit> stance. While on
> the run from the Nazis, he wrote one of the most
> arguments in
> favor of religious Jews going to Palestine. But he
> the hands of
> the -- although his book survived and still
> to this
> While the Labour (Marxist) Zionists got the most
proved> from the
> agreement with the Nazis, people in the other side
> movement also wanted to do anything that would help
> Jews from
> what was happening.
> What was happening to them Chien?
> Ben Hecht's 'Perfidy' opened the can of worms and
1967.> that the Ben
> Gurion Zionists (the Marxists) were, indeed, deeply
> with the
> Nazis... a subject that's still 'sensitive' here in
> and seemingly
> impervious to objective analysis.
> Suffice to say that the Ben Gurion klatch won the
> when they
> sunk the Altalena and murdered Jews who were
> sinking ship.
> By sinking the Altalena, Ben Gurion assured an Arab
> that let
> Jordan illegally occupy huge parts of Israel until
http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/mandate_for_palestine/mandate_for_palestine.htm> Currently, the ruling elite are busy as termites
undoing all the
> progress towards a sovereign Jewish State as defined
in the 1922
> Why Sovereign *Jewish* state Chien? why not just
> required to conform with the same international norms that
> Jewry prescribes for the rest of the world?
> The malicious desire to reduce, then eliminate
> of the
> never-really-Jewish State is intensifying, and
> and secular) in Israel stand up and fight, it's
> that Israel
> will lose what little sovereignty it has.
> And what a celebration for the rest of humanity that
will be. But
> frankly, with the sheer insular insanity evidenced by
> Likudnik power-freaks, I reckon we'll likely see some
version of the
> Sampson option first
> The stated goal is a return to
> the mythical 'Golden Age' when Arabs and Jews
That's> (but didn't
> really) lived in harmony. But the result will be a
> and subjugation (dhimmitude) for Jews.
> 'Animal Farm',
> Islamic ideology says that all of us are equal, but
> are more
> equal than those of us who refuse to submit to their
> Why does your brand of Judaism require special treatment
> for Jews
> and the State of Israel. Is it because you believe you are
> "Chosen" and
> thus in some fashion superior to the Goyim that you live
> For those who champion the anti-Israel cause, one
> say that
> eventually the Muslims will also subjugate them.
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/04/28/livingstone-vindicated-there-was-a-nazi-zionist-agreement-and-hitler-did-support-it/> what's really
> happening. https://youtu.be/t_Qpy0mXg8Y
> Ah; I see. Have the thoroughly befuddled Christian and
> fight Huntingdon's "Clash of civilisations" to the death
so that the
> Chosenites finally triumph and get to build their
> Something like that I guess. Right?
> All the best from the front lines of one of history's
> longest battles
> for genuine freedom (more than 1,400 years since
> slaughtered the Jews of Khaybar and got the wealth
> that would
> help them conquer and subjugate many
> provide the
> inspiration for the Islamic Empire we're seeing
manifest in many
> places... such as Iraq, Syria, and London)...
> As an example of deeply duplicitous crocodile tears,
> does take the biscuit.
> As if Israel does not have its fingerprints over all the
> death and
> destruction that has rained on the Middle East since
> since that fateful day in September 2011
> Israel was born in a Bloody ethnic-cleansing conflict
> ever since. It will see no peace unless and until it can
> itself to
> treat non-Jews - in all respects - equally; which of
course is never
> going to happen. So God help us all (Not just the
Chosenites I say)
> Peter P
> On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 8:50 PM, douglas rankine
> see url:
between> and url:
> Dear Colleagues,
> "The Haavara Agreement was an agreement
Zionist> Nazi Germany and
> Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933.
> The agreement was finalized after three
> talks by the
> Zionist Federation of Germany, the
> Bank (under
> the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the
> economic authorities
> of Nazi Germany.
> The agreement was designed to help
> emigration of
> German Jews to Palestine.
> While it helped Jews emigrate, it forced
> give up possessions to Germany before
> possessions could later be re-obtained by
> transferring them to
> Palestine as German export goods.
> The agreement was controversial at the
> was criticised
> by many Jewish leaders both within the
but> movement and
> outside it.
> Hitler’s own support of the Haavara
> unclear and
> varied throughout the 1930s.
> Initially, Hitler criticized the agreement,
> reversed his
> opinion and supported it in the period