On 04/06/2016 19:58, LEACHMAN Cliff wrote:
Wow what a tale! Always interesting to read alternate viewpoints. Cheers
CLIFF
My fathers Ukrainian/Polish/Jewish family was, for the most part
completely wiped out during WW2.
On 2016-06-04, at 7:36 AM, Samuel Birbeck wrote:
Fuck off Peter.
On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Peter Presland <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
You confirm the assessment implied in my original reply below.
Viz, that
you are a quintessentially modern young(ish) example of the Israeli
Hasbara in in action. I confess that my reply was provocative;
that was
my intention. It was done to elicit precisely the sort of reply that I
expected and got, ie pure demeaning ad-hominem with zero substance. FI
(in case you have missed the odd earlier post of mine - and since you
raise the matter with your tar-baby remark), I am considerably older
than you and warrant that I have spent the past 15 years in full-time
study of modern history in which pre-war German and dissident Anglo
policy/opinion, together with so-called 'revisionist' post war
research/opinion is given similar weight to those of the current
consensus establishment.
My understanding of historical fact is therefore vastly different from
yours. And that would be fine were the differences open to reasonable
debate and discourse, but of course they are not. Only one
interpretation is allowed. It is of the 'Jews as history's eternal
victims - a victimhood that reached its apotheosis in "The
Holocaust"'.
As long as that is accepted (which in practice means supported and
promoted as well), everything else is OK for debate. But I do NOT
accept
it and, since my evidence and reasons are so profoundly unsettling to
our current Jewish dominated (or at least fawningly supportive)
western
establishment, ad-hominem attack is all the Hasbara are left with.
I recognise I may be wrong in some of my interpretation of evidence. I
expect the same from others. My interpretation is not dissimilar
to this:
http://mouqawamahmusic.net/the-fake-6-million-vs-the-real-29-million-jewish-lies-jewish-crimes-and-the-collapse-of-the-jewish-discourse-paradigm/
And here is an example of the outrageous deceptions of the Victors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vs1eR7hsT8
And here is his sister's take on her bother Adolf Hitler.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZwwTGcboQk
All that I seek is open debate on the sort of evidence presented
above,
instead of which I get a patronising ad-hominem - A microcosm of the
situation prevailing in the somnambulant West generally.
"The Holocaust" narrative remains the primary enabler of a powerful
taboo which renders open discussion of Jewish ethno-centric Power and
its excercise throughout the 20th century right up to today
impossible -
absent serious adverse consequences. That is a damning indictment
of the
west
You have an interesting take on 'chosenness' but, as you surely must
know, it is a mere fragment of Judaic teaching on the matter. It also
obfuscates less pleasant strands of Jewish indentity politics, such as
yelling 'antisemite' at the first hint of effective taboo-challenge -
which, couched in a veneer of elegant discourse, is exactly what you
did. But no matter; I count it as another badge of honour and propose
that its meaning be revised from 'someone who doesn't like Jews'
to the
infinately more accurate 'someone who Jews don't like'.
Peter Presland
On 02/06/2016 19:50, Chien Fume wrote:
> Hi Doug. Glad you made is back from France. Interesting observations
> about what's really going on there. Leaders around the world seem
> determined to make life tough for normal people. At exactly the
moment
> in history when it's possible to improve the living conditions
of almost
> everyone, and to ensure genuine liberty, the power elite and the
> hypnotized chickens with iPhones and designer clothes have
decided to
> roll everything back to 7th century savagery.
>
> I'm watching the latest Adam Curtis documentary "Bitter Lake"
for the
> first time. I always need to watch Curtis' films at least three
times or
> more. As usual, Curtis opens a perspective that does a splendid
job of
> explaining things. He's always seemed to be one of the most honest
> reporters I can think of. All his documentaries are worth
careful study.
>
> I'm also listening to the audio book of A.E. Van Vogt's 'World
of Null
> A'. I've been studying General Semantics for a long time. Some
of its
> concepts were even part of my education. So the book is
interesting on
> many levels.
>
> Interesting bit you wrote about the fiction works you've read. How
> they're affecting you. We often get more from fiction than from
fact.
> When people describe dramatic real-life events, they'll often
say 'it
> was like a movie'. If you've ever been in a real gun battle,
you'll know
> it's true that things seem to slow down. You don't really hear the
> gunfire as you do when on the shooting range. Afterwards, when
writing
> the 'after-action report' the words often come out in a mechanical
> way... like a third-person observer robot. The language tends to be
> artificial... perhaps because there's a psychological need to
distance
> oneself from what happened. But, when having a few Black & Tans (or
> Coors) and talking about it with others, the language is
natural, more
> honest (I think). Leading some to suggest that we forego the written
> report and go straight to the Black & Tan chat... let some secretary
> make a transcript. By the way, whenever possible, I prefer
Belhaven Ale
> - difficult to find in Israel.
>
> I think Walter Benjamin addressed some of these ideas about how
cinema
> changed how we see the world. He was quite insightful in his writing
> about cinema (still in its early stages at the time). I'm going
through
> what I can find online from the book 'From Caligari to
Hitler'... how
> cinema became so important to the Nazis... eventually surpassing
radio.
> Films like 'Jud Sus' and 'Der Ewige Jude' were considered factual
> documentaries and were required study for prison guards. It was film
> that put the fine point on the psychological conditioning the Nazis
> learned from Le Bon and Bernays (and Schopenhauer). Today, those
methods
> are systematized and so integral to modern social media that they're
> like water to a fish (invisible).
>
> I'm re-reading McLuhan's 'Understanding Media' and appreciating his
> insight and foresight.
>
> I've decided to NOT respond to the rhetorical questions and silly
> statements of Peter. I've had enough of such tar-baby arguments.
Your
> citations ought to suffice. Especially the '25 Points' document.
I read
> 'Mein Kampf' years ago... studied parts of it in undergrand and grad
> school. Now it's officially back in the world and we'll see what
comes
> of that. The Muslims are avid readers of this book.
>
> A few years ago, I had a young Arab guy from Hevron start
talking to me
> about Hitler. He was well informed and thought highly of him. Unlike
> most Jews, I acknowledge Hitler's brilliance and mastery of
rhetoric. I
> hate what he did, but think it's foolish to call him deranged.
He gave
> voice to sentiments that were common in the world... many from
ancient
> times.
>
> Today, more people think the same way about Jews than in
Hitler's own
> time. I don't believe it's justified since the things they talk
about
> are almost always part of the Human Process (that is, common to
everyone).
>
> Mostly, people don't understand Judaism... and this is because
Jews also
> don't understand it! It's not a noun, but a verb. It's a way of
thinking
> based on freedom and arguing about everything. That, to me, isn't a
> condemnation. Abraham was the first Anarcho-Libertarian. Ayn Rand
> would've gotten along just fine with him (as far as she was able
to get
> along with anyone). All that 'cosen people' stuff is
misrepresented. The
> question to ask is 'chosen for what, exactly?' I say, chosen to be
> stubborn, argumentative, and refusing to bow down to arbitrary
authority.
>
> Back to your French trip. I've wanted to visit Paris since I was a
> teenager. I wanted to go to the restaurant Au Chien Qui Fume,
where one
> of my favorite mystical philosopher writers Crowley spent so
much time.
> I also wanted to see if the French 'Sisters of Mercy' lived up
to their
> reputation.
>
> But those 'wandervogel' days are long gone and now my focus is on
> visiting as much of Israel as I can before I'm not allowed to go to
> ancient Jewish places. This is a troubling reality... the number of
> places I can visit without any trouble has decreased
dramatically over
> the past nearly 12 years. In the near future, I'll be forbidden,
by law,
> from freely traveling in large parts of Judea and Samaria.
>
> Thanks for your insights and suggestions. Will do my best to find
> information on the works you mention.
>
> As my friend Robert Anton Wilson would often say, 'Keep the
pizza flying'...
>
> All the best...
> CF
>
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:06 PM, douglas rankine
> <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>
> Hi Chien & Peter,
>
> Whilst on holiday in France and completely oblivious to the
goings
> on between the government and workers of the country...until
it was
> time to get petrol to get home...:-). I was lucky to find
some in a
> garage in the middle of France. Apparently the Socialist
President
> Hollande of France was in the process of teaching the workers of
> France all about improving democracy and socialism by
introducing
> new laws which extended the working week from 35 hours to 64 and
> cutting back on pensions, increasing the pensionable age,
and making
> it easier for employers to sack people so that the employers
could
> be induced to employ more workers and help expand the
economy and
> make working people better off...:-). The workers of France
aren't
> particularly pleased with the way in which the lessons are being
> taught, neither are they very pleased with the intended
outcome...in
> fact they have found Hollande's conclusions quite
revolting...if you
> will pardon the pun...:-).
>
> In between my housing project and other researches, I read
a few
> books which you may...or there again...may not be interested in
> reading...
>
> One was a trilogy of books by Ken Follett, called the Century
> Trilogy, Fall of Giants and its follow ups, and the other was a
> biography of Gertrude Bell by Georgina Howell.
>
> The trilogy by Follett is a fictional work of history, which
deals
> with some of the main events taken from conventional history
of the
> 19th and 20th century right up until the 1980s. What I like
about
> this series of books is how well the history is researched
and how
> well the novels are put together, with a linking of fictional
> characters, families and situations tied in with historic
events.
> They make the lives of people at the time come alive
somehow. In
> particular I would like to draw both of your attentions to the
> period leading up to and between the 1st and 2nd World Wars,
in the
> UK. Palestine, the creation of the state of Israel, the
taking over
> of power in Germany by the NSDAP, the USA and protectionism and
> interference, Russia the defeat of the Tzar and the landed
> aristocracy, the takeover by the Bolsheviks and the creation
of the
> Soviet Union and the creation of a number of new Middle Eastern
> States when the geographical lines and political entities were
> redrawn as a result of the Versailles Treaty and various other
> aspects of secret diplomacy. He looks at the abstract
theories and
> beliefs of politics and philosophies, which governed the
events at
> the time, and how the various ruling classes, circles and
> establishments interpreted them; and with the use of some
fictional
> characters introduces the reader to the practical happenings
taken
> from real events which occurred in all of those countries at the
> actual time. History turns out not quite what it seems, or
how it
> was supposed to turn out. His fictional history of the ups and
> downs of a German family in the years from 1933 to 1945 in
Germany,
> I found particularly interesting.
>
> The work by Georgina Howell, is a much more factual historical
> account of a very unusual woman, Gertrude Bell, and how she,
from a
> background of the ruling English UK establishment played a very
> important role in formulating UK foreign policy in the
Middle East,
> in particular the Arab, Moslem countries during the first three
> decades of the 20th century. She was not only a polymath and a
> British Spy, she was a great mountain climber, walker and
explorer
> of countries throughout the Middle East, working very
closely with
> the Arab Moslems, the many tribes of Bedouins and the various
> countries and personalities who were involved in the creation of
> Iraq at the time, including Winston Churchill, Balfour and
Lawrence
> of Arabia. She managed to survive through all of the male
attacks
> and prejudices put in her way, trying to prevent her from
learning
> about Arab and Moslem culture and attempts to subdue her by
various
> authorities, from Government Ministers to Arab Sheiks, even
being
> trusted by some of them. Her reports were much valued at
the time
> and are an important part of the historical record of the Middle
> East and the British and French ruling class ideas at the time.
>
> For more on Gertrude Bell, her history, background, the role she
> played and the reports she produced, you can find out on
Amazon or
> in Wikipedia.
>
> See url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_Bell
>
>
> I must say, I do love fiction in all its forms and think that
> historical fiction is one of the best ways of explaining all
that is
> good and bad in the world...and gives the writer so much
leeway to
> accommodate their own views and interpretations of the
world, the
> universe and what it is all about.
>
> I was thinking about doing a treatise on the superior Aryan
race and
> how it dealt with the Biblical Chosen people, and how their
blood
> line and intellectual, political, philosophical and practical
> activities made them think that they were superior, and how the
> Chosen people came to be chosen, and how I cannot be one of
> them...but then I thought...can I be bothered, I would
rather stay
> as I am, unenlightened, stupid, full of prejudices, dogmatism,
> contrariness, ignorance, hypocrisy...and in deep shit most
of the
> time...but at least I am happy in the shit...it can be a
nice warm
> place to be in...and most people avoid delving in the
shit...unless
> they have a penchant for it...:-).
>
> Cest la vie.
>
> Dougie.
>
>
>
> On 08/05/2016 16:44, Peter Presland wrote:
>
> On 08/05/2016 10:57, Chien Fume wrote:
>
> Doug - You've provided a good overview of the issue.
Another
> summary is
> found here:
>
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0008_0_08075.html
> It might have more credence in some quarters since
it comes
> from a
> 'Jewish' source.
>
> It's interesting to watch how people are reacting to
this
> well-documented historical event. In Israel, it's
caused an
> uproar and
> shown the extent to which most people are
misinformed. Or,
> perhaps, so
> troubled by the facts that they must resort to
sophistry and
> flat-out
> (but clearly foolish) denial.
>
> There was enormous, often violent opposition to the
effort
> to get Jews
> to go to Palestine. The super-religious were the
worst of
> all and simply
> refused to acknowledge the plain facts regarding
what the
> NSDAP was
> planning.
>
> So tell us Chien, what exactly was the NSDAP planning?
>
> One influential Rabbi who strongly opposed
Jabotinsky's call
> for massive aliyah lived just long enough to regret his
> stance. While on
> the run from the Nazis, he wrote one of the most
compelling
> arguments in
> favor of religious Jews going to Palestine. But he
died at
> the hands of
> the -- although his book survived and still
influences Jews
> to this
> day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yissachar_Shlomo_Teichtal
>
> While the Labour (Marxist) Zionists got the most benefit
> from the
> agreement with the Nazis, people in the other side
of the
> Zionist
> movement also wanted to do anything that would help
rescue
> Jews from
> what was happening.
>
> What was happening to them Chien?
>
> Ben Hecht's 'Perfidy' opened the can of worms and proved
> that the Ben
> Gurion Zionists (the Marxists) were, indeed, deeply
involved
> with the
> Nazis... a subject that's still 'sensitive' here in
Israel
> and seemingly
> impervious to objective analysis.
>
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/BHecht.html
>
> Suffice to say that the Ben Gurion klatch won the
civil war
> when they
> sunk the Altalena and murdered Jews who were
escaping the
> sinking ship.
> By sinking the Altalena, Ben Gurion assured an Arab
victory
> that let
> Jordan illegally occupy huge parts of Israel until 1967.
> Currently, the ruling elite are busy as termites
undoing all the
> progress towards a sovereign Jewish State as defined
in the 1922
> Partition
>
http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/mandate_for_palestine/mandate_for_palestine.htm
>
> Why Sovereign *Jewish* state Chien? why not just
*sovereign* and
> required to conform with the same international norms that
> International
> Jewry prescribes for the rest of the world?
>
> The malicious desire to reduce, then eliminate
what's left
> of the
> never-really-Jewish State is intensifying, and
unless Jews
> (religious
> and secular) in Israel stand up and fight, it's
quite likely
> that Israel
> will lose what little sovereignty it has.
>
> And what a celebration for the rest of humanity that
will be. But
> frankly, with the sheer insular insanity evidenced by
the Israeli
> Likudnik power-freaks, I reckon we'll likely see some
version of the
> Sampson option first
> https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Israel/Samson_Option
>
> The stated goal is a return to
> the mythical 'Golden Age' when Arabs and Jews supposedly
> (but didn't
> really) lived in harmony. But the result will be a
return to
> inequality
> and subjugation (dhimmitude) for Jews.
> http://www.dhimmitude.org/d_history_dhimmitude.html
As in
> 'Animal Farm',
> Islamic ideology says that all of us are equal, but
Muslims
> are more
> equal than those of us who refuse to submit to their
deadly
> theocracy.
>
> Why does your brand of Judaism require special treatment
only
> for Jews
> and the State of Israel. Is it because you believe you are
> "Chosen" and
> thus in some fashion superior to the Goyim that you live
among?
>
> For those who champion the anti-Israel cause, one
can only
> say that
> eventually the Muslims will also subjugate them. That's
> what's really
> happening. https://youtu.be/t_Qpy0mXg8Y
>
> Ah; I see. Have the thoroughly befuddled Christian and
Muslim worlds
> fight Huntingdon's "Clash of civilisations" to the death
so that the
> Chosenites finally triumph and get to build their
mythical 3rd
> Temple.
> Something like that I guess. Right?
>
> All the best from the front lines of one of history's
> longest battles
> for genuine freedom (more than 1,400 years since
Mohamed's army
> slaughtered the Jews of Khaybar and got the wealth
and power
> that would
> help them conquer and subjugate many
civilizations... and
> provide the
> inspiration for the Islamic Empire we're seeing
manifest in many
> places... such as Iraq, Syria, and London)...
> CF
>
> As an example of deeply duplicitous crocodile tears,
that para
> really
> does take the biscuit.
>
> As if Israel does not have its fingerprints over all the
vast
> death and
> destruction that has rained on the Middle East since
1945 and
> especially
> since that fateful day in September 2011
>
> Israel was born in a Bloody ethnic-cleansing conflict
that has
> continued
> ever since. It will see no peace unless and until it can
bring
> itself to
> treat non-Jews - in all respects - equally; which of
course is never
> going to happen. So God help us all (Not just the
Chosenites I say)
>
> Peter P
>
> On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 8:50 PM, douglas rankine
> <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> <mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
> <mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> <mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
>
> see url:
>
>
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/04/28/livingstone-vindicated-there-was-a-nazi-zionist-agreement-and-hitler-did-support-it/
> and url:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> "The Haavara Agreement was an agreement between
> Nazi Germany and
> Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933.
>
> The agreement was finalized after three
months of
> talks by the
> Zionist Federation of Germany, the
Anglo-Palestine
> Bank (under
> the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the
> economic authorities
> of Nazi Germany.
>
> The agreement was designed to help
facilitate the
> emigration of
> German Jews to Palestine.
>
> While it helped Jews emigrate, it forced
them to
> temporarily
> give up possessions to Germany before
departing. Those
> possessions could later be re-obtained by
> transferring them to
> Palestine as German export goods.
>
> The agreement was controversial at the
time, and
> was criticised
> by many Jewish leaders both within the Zionist
> movement and
> outside it.
>
> Hitler’s own support of the Haavara
Agreement was
> unclear and
> varied throughout the 1930s.
> Initially, Hitler criticized the agreement, but
> reversed his
> opinion and supported it in the period
1937-1939."
>
> ATB
> Dougie.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Cliff Leachman
dr.leachman@xxxxxxx <mailto:dr.leachman@xxxxxxx>
