Hi Doug. As always, thanks for the interesting and very useful response.
I'm unable, at present, to respond to all the things you've written. In
fact, very little response is necessary because, as always, you share your
keen insight with precision and clarity, and insert much-needed humor.
Anyone who can quote Oscar Wilde like you do deserves an A+.
I believe you'll find this video interesting *Dr Paul Strassmann on
Partisan Warfare in World War II* <https://youtu.be/r4m0wmCt42I> This
lecture contains a brief segment on the bureaucratization of genocide. This
part comes early-on in the presentation. This subject, I think, is
something that ought to be concerning us today... since modern technology
has made it possible to impose an even greater horror on the general
population than was experienced in World War II.
*The Shoah and Tar Babies*
I've spent too many years reading, listening to, and sometimes debating
those who 'question the Holocaust'. It might surprise you to know I'm not
at all happy about how the issue has been dealt with by the Jewish
Establishment. They've helped spread a lot of confusion and done more harm
than good. I refuse to go to 'Holocaust Museums' or to visit 'Yad Vashem'
in Jerusalem. But I don't doubt for one second that at least 6 million Jews
were slaughtered simply because they were Jews... or because they had a
distant Jewish relative. I'm equally weary of the sanctimonious ADL types
who scream 'antisemite' when it suits their narrow political purpose
(usually trying to damage someone they've targeted). But the ADL ignores
ignore the real thing when it's to their economic benefit.
*Questioning the Unquestionable*
Entering into any kind of communication with those who 'question the Shoah'
would be like B'rer Rabbit getting into a fight with the Tar Baby. I can
understand how somebody not familiar with the African-American 'B'rer
Rabbit' folk tales might interpret my comment as a veiled insult. One of
the valuable ideas I got from the early days of Neuro-Linguistic
Programming was this: "The meaning of your communication is the response
It's usually not wise to assume that others will understand every example
folk-tale reference... and this was a mistake on my part. So let me take
responsibility for that and make it clear what I intended to say: the way
the discussion was going would end up following the Tar Baby scenario.
I grew up hearing all kinds of folk-wisdom tales, including the Tar Baby
and the Signifying Monkey (a bawdy but most instructive poem about a
gossip-mongering monkey who gets his kicks by getting the other animals
angry with each other). I'll see if I can dig into my memory and retrieve
the Signifying Monkey poem as it was taught to me. Until then, I think my
old friend Robert Anton Wilson best described what the Tar Baby Principle
is all about. A small quote from Shea and Wilson's *Illuminatus*! tells it
Hope this clears up a few things.
Until next time.....
All the best from the front lines of the war against classical liberal life
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 10:55 PM, douglas rankine <
Hi Chien Fume,
Thank you for your reply. I had a look at the url's you posited in your
posting...thank you. Strangely enough I had never heard of Adam Curtis and
had never watched "Bitter Lake." I have corrected that now. Much to me
missus's annoyance I spent 2 and a half hours watching it on BBC Iplayer at
peak viewing time...:-). When historical information is put together
like that, it helps to create an impression of reality, without too much of
the cause and effect aspect of relaying historical truths. I also had a
look at AE Van Vogt's "World of A" (or a synopsis of it), whom I had heard
of but never read. Also, I had never heard of the concept of "General
Semantics" before or of Korzybski.
see url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_semantics
and url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Korzybski
for those who are interested in a preliminary introduction.
One of the biggest changes in our human history, in my view, has been of
course the development of the mass media. We have come a long way from
when artefacts were the only evidence of human existence and ways of life
on the planet. The development of the written word from spoken language
placed upon tablets, changed the world in its own way, much as newspapers
and books, and of course with the advances in the science of electricity
and its use, turning into radio, films and then television allowed mass
communications around much of the world, for those of us who could afford
it and had access to it. Combined with the development of the internet
and world wide web, we now have a veritable mountain of data and
information which we can log into, consult, learn from and practice. Such
mass communication comes with its problems of course, the quest for truth
becomes more difficult, the question of choice and how credible or correct
information is, the development of public relations by governments and
private corporations, using all the latest social sciences, psychology,
propaganda, and all the various other arts and sciences of deception and
truths under the name of marketing, or positioning, makes it extremely
difficult for us all to make up our minds on a scientific and objective
basis on anything. Choosing what type of digital equipment to carry around
us comes at a cost...working out the cost,the reliability, the
specification and the attributes is a nightmare. As Oscar Wilde once
said, "Religions die when they are proved to be true. Science is the record
of dead religions." I must say I find that quote very funny and very
poignant...and very long-lasting...It has stuck in my mind ever since I
first read it...which was many years ago...:-)
see url: http://todayinsci.com/W/Wilde_Oscar/WildeOscar-Quotations.htm
for more of his quotes on the scientific method.
I have never heard of Walter Benjamin either, so that is something else
which I have learned.
see url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Benjamin
for those of you who are interested in such matters. I may look into his
ideas, philosophy and practices later...
In my time I have read a lot of prohibited material, particularly when I
was told I wasn't allowed to read it. Most of it was rubbish, but there
were some gems. "Mein Kampf" in English was one. The Communist Party
bookshop wouldn't sell it to me for some reason, so I had to get it from
elsewhere...My first taste of censorship in a party which I thought allowed
discussion on everything...that is how naive I was. Though it is a long
time since I read it, I remember it as being quite boring...and how
outdated now. Another book I came across, which an old Jewish communist
told me about, was called "Jew Seuss".
I read it three times.
“If one cannot enjoy reading a book over and over again, there is no use
in reading it at all.” Oscar Wilde.
I was very much impressed with the writing and the story line and the
historical setting...I thought it was brilliant, and would recommend it to
anyone and everyone who is interested in such things. I never saw the film
because the reviews weren't very good and it didn't appeal, as it was more
aimed at appealing to German NSDAP sentiments, philosophies and
theories...much of which was based on pursuing anti-Semitic themes; a bit
like the theories of Karl Marx on an economic system belonging to the 19th
Century being taken over and re-written or re-interpreted by the Marxists,
in particular the Communist Party of the USSR. Now that I understand that
the film is freely available on the internet, I might take another look...I
hope it has English subtitles...:-).
Regarding your comments on the German media during the time of the NSDAP
rule between 1933 and 1945, Hitler and his cohorts certainly did use the
media to their advantage. The development of mass radio communication and
state radio with most people acquiring a wireless was too good an
opportunity to miss. With the development of recording media such as
magnetic tape and film and the movie camera, and the opening of cinemas for
the masses, a new era opened up for public education and mass
propaganda. Historic events for the first time could be recorded...and
see url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels
I managed to download the film "Freedom of the Will", another movie
frowned upon by certain groupings as being anti-Semitic. Be that as it may
I thought it was a brilliant exposition of the NSDAP philosophy, theory and
belief systems and an exposition of how it was put into practice. The film
is available with English sub-titles from the Film Archive for free.
see url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_of_the_Will
and for a download, see url:
with English subtitles.
The brilliance of the film lay in the original work of Leni Riefenstahl
used a lot of new film techniques which were copied by the Hollywood
Fantasy factory during the 1930's whilst she herself was banned from
practising there due to her alleged anti-Semitic views. Riefenstahl always
said that she didn't support the views of the NSDAP and that the film was
made for artistic reasons and the challenge of the new media.
see url: https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007410
Whether she was or not, I don't know...if not...should one shoot the
messenger...a common practice in history...The execution of the harbinger
of bad news, appears to bring temporary relief to the receiver...:-).
What I personally got when I watched the film, was how small, how
insignificant were the aims of the NSDAP and the symbols, the German flag
which had Indian roots, the whole mechanistic, hero worship process, the
Aryan belief system, the purity of the blood, (The pseudo science of
Eugenics was very fashionable amongst many of the socialiste at the time,
the science of genetics had yet to be invented), the German people of all
descriptions, (excepting the dead opposition of course) gathering and then
marching towards the Nuremberg Rally all looking into the sky to watch the
Fuehrer's aeroplane coming between the twin spires of Nuremberg in the
early morning so that Hitler could present himself to the masses as their
great saviour, is really something else. The thousand year Reich, which
was going to conquer the world, get rid of the Jew and any and all other
opposition to the Fuhrer and to his cohorts was something to see. Big it
was at the time...For the first time the German people were to be "Free
from Freedom". Life is so much easier when there are no choices and people
do as they are told! How wonderful it seemed that by obeying Hitler, they
would get on well, conquer the world and fulfil the Aryan dream, the
marching, the songs, the whole culture would last for a thousand
years...For a while, it worked...money was created, jobs were created, the
arms industry and the public infrastructure was expanded. No one knew
then, the carnage which would ensue in 1939, apart from Winston Churchill
perhaps and a few others, and no one knew how long the Reich would last.
It is interesting to note, that I have never been able to find any evidence
that Hitler actually killed anyone directly...whereas plenty of other world
leaders were involved in killing people directly...including Winston
Churchill...but there you are...I stand to be corrected...:-)
May I say that I don't subscribe to the idea that Adolf Hitler was some
kind of brilliant intellectual. It never showed up academically or in his
paintings or writings. He was a bit of a waster, spendthrift and dreamer
in his younger days, living off of his mother whilst he "studied" in
Vienna. He did, however have a large share of animal cunning and learned
early the boundaries of his society and action within it, during the war
years when he was exposed to the carnage of World War 1, and when he was
jailed for the attempted Munich Beer hall Putsch in 1923. As a politician,
he obviously managed to take advantage of all those things which the
Germans felt was wrong with their society and only showed a glimmering of
democracy when he and his party stood for election in 1933. He joined a
party which someone else had formed and which was anti-Semitic.
The new science of mass communication had come into being and was being
used so well by politicians on their way to creating dictatorships, new
skills of rhetoric and mass mesmerism became the norm...simple easy to
remember slogans, blaming others for all of one's ills. (Politicians use
similar methods today, good guys beat the shit out of the bad guys, easy to
remember slogans and headlines). There was tremendous opposition to Hitler
and the NSDAP in the 1930's, mainly from the communists, the trades unions,
the social democrats and many others, who did NOT agree with his policies.
They fought in the streets and died for their pains, they struggled in what
democratic state organisations were left, but were defeated. There was
however, a common theme of anti-Jewish sentiment, manifested in Clause 4 of
the 25 Principles of the NSDAP. The funding and support of the various
factions is also an interesting subject in its own right, as, like today,
it often has a bearing on the outcome, secret funding and support comes to
see url: http://www.hitler.org/writings/programme/
Anti-Semitism has resulted in pogroms against Jews on many occasions
throughout history. As always, there are times when the timing is right
for change to happen and it can be progressive or reactionary. There is
nothing new in this of course, the Jews have suffered from pogroms from the
time of Genghis Khan, and not only in Germany, but all over the world,
including the UK.
The Scots and the English conducted pogroms against one another. The
Catholics and Protestants conducted pogroms against one another, depending
on what religion the monarch on the throne was.
see url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxe's_Book_of_Martyrs
and url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Civil_War
The Brownshirts and the Reich-stag Fire and the blame for the fire being
placed upon the Communists was all Hitler and the NSDAP needed to sweep
away the opposition, before the 1933 election and then consolidated
afterwards, which eventually led to his coup by illegally changing the law
of Germany allowing him to bypass the Reich-stag. It is as well to
remember that in the 1933 election, Adolph Hitler and his party did NOT
achieve a majority, but only enough votes to take power in conjunction with
other parties. He didn't bother with them. He took over and sent his
Brownshirts in to destroy the meeting of the Reich-stag, preventing the
M.P.s from voting. The real exterminations of the opposition took place
afterwards, when he was consolidating his power and that of his NSDAP
cohorts, and making Germany ready for trying to get back the losses of the
First World War.
As you...and everyone else on this mailing list...is no doubt aware, the
question of the Holocaust is a very sensitive area for not only the Jews
but for those people who don't agree with interpretations of what caused
the 2nd World War and what happened in Germany regarding the treatment of
the Jews during that war. Whether you are a full blown member of the
"hasbara" or not, you have a right to say what you want and express your
views. But like all those things, rights come with responsibilities.
Peter admits to feeding provocation at you and you responded in exactly the
way he wished you to. May I say, whether you are a "hasbara" supporter or
not...and you have said that you are into semantics of a general kind...
:-), accusing someone of being a "tarbaby" is not a good way of gaining
people's respect...or stimulating the right kind of discussion. I must
say, the spectre of you being Brer Rabbit rather than Chien Fume, makes my
mind boggle...:-). And I had to find out what a tarbaby was and look it
up on the internet...
see url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar-Baby
believe it or not, I have never read or heard the story of Brer Rabbit and
I am certainly learning a lot of new words, new meanings and phrases and
concepts on this mailing list this week, words I never knew existed,
tarbaby, ad hominem...and "Fuck off..." and also to find a word which does
not contain the word "Nazi" in case it upsets the finer temperament of some
of our more sophisticated colleagues, or, for that matter find out what the
meaning of the holocaust is or the "chosen people" means to the people who
have been chosen...Back to Oscar Wilde...:-).
"The old believe everything, the middle aged, mistrust everything...and
the young know everything".
If I am here teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, please accept my
apologies, but it would probably be worth your while, if you have not
already done so, not only to read, but to study that famous or infamous
piece of literature called "Israel Projects 2009 Global Language
Dictionary", which is aimed at avoiding those very pitfalls which folks
fall into when they are trying to discuss or open a dialogue on a very
sensitive area of the human psyche, and which helps to keep the state of
Israel alive. Why it is so sensitive is a whole big subject in itself. I
found the dictionary a couple of years back and placed the url to it on the
Cryptome Mailing List...it might even have been on the Cryptome Web Site.
In fact I strongly advise all people who are engaged in such discussions to
study this document, because it may help to avoid them falling into the
very same pitfalls. I use its lessons all the time...though I too,
occasionally make mistakes in its interpretation and use...Semantics is
such a woolly subject...:-).
see url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Project
I try to use the principles taught there so as not to be accused of being
anti-Semitic, at the same time being able to present my opposition to
various policies of Israel and certain organisations which are backed by
the Jewish people and their religious or political representatives.
And please note, dear colleagues, I am not Jewish or a Jewish supporter,
follower or apologist, neither am I a supporter of national socialism or
any other political ism. I am very much a doubter regarding the existence
of "God" in any of its forms, and even more so in religious belief systems.
And I don't have a lot of faith in nationalism or nation states as a way
of governing the world. I don't have a lot of faith in the scientific
method either...however, if it is a duck it quacks and if an experiment
when put into practice works and can be consistently reproduced with the
same outcome, then it must be true...:-). However, we are all a part of
this time space bubble and if there is one thing I learned in the
communist party which has always stuck with me, even long after my
disillusionment, it is that peaceful co-existence is one of the best ways
forward, it is pure Darwin, survival of the fittest...meaning the most
adaptable, not just the most powerful. Learning to live with one another
and respecting the views of others is one of the ways to attaining that
peace...and perhaps we can all then progress towards that
utopia...However...the price of peace never comes without war...and
struggle is the essence of survival for the species.
I wonder how long home sapiens will last on the planet....5 million years
so far...will we all go back to being dinosaurs or insects...:-).
However as Alexander's posting says...it might only be until tomorrow...
With kind regards,
On 02/06/2016 19:50, Chien Fume wrote:
Hi Doug. Glad you made is back from France. Interesting observations about
what's really going on there. Leaders around the world seem determined to
make life tough for normal people. At exactly the moment in history when
it's possible to improve the living conditions of almost everyone, and to
ensure genuine liberty, the power elite and the hypnotized chickens with
iPhones and designer clothes have decided to roll everything back to 7th
I'm watching the latest Adam Curtis documentary "Bitter Lake" for the
first time. I always need to watch Curtis' films at least three times or
more. As usual, Curtis opens a perspective that does a splendid job of
explaining things. He's always seemed to be one of the most honest
reporters I can think of. All his documentaries are worth careful study.
I'm also listening to the audio book of A.E. Van Vogt's 'World of Null A'.
I've been studying General Semantics for a long time. Some of its concepts
were even part of my education. So the book is interesting on many levels.
Interesting bit you wrote about the fiction works you've read. How they're
affecting you. We often get more from fiction than from fact. When people
describe dramatic real-life events, they'll often say 'it was like a
movie'. If you've ever been in a real gun battle, you'll know it's true
that things seem to slow down. You don't really hear the gunfire as you do
when on the shooting range. Afterwards, when writing the 'after-action
report' the words often come out in a mechanical way... like a third-person
observer robot. The language tends to be artificial... perhaps because
there's a psychological need to distance oneself from what happened. But,
when having a few Black & Tans (or Coors) and talking about it with others,
the language is natural, more honest (I think). Leading some to suggest
that we forego the written report and go straight to the Black & Tan
chat... let some secretary make a transcript. By the way, whenever
possible, I prefer Belhaven Ale - difficult to find in Israel.
I think Walter Benjamin addressed some of these ideas about how cinema
changed how we see the world. He was quite insightful in his writing about
cinema (still in its early stages at the time). I'm going through what I
can find online from the book 'From Caligari to Hitler'... how cinema
became so important to the Nazis... eventually surpassing radio. Films like
'Jud Sus' and 'Der Ewige Jude' were considered factual documentaries and
were required study for prison guards. It was film that put the fine point
on the psychological conditioning the Nazis learned from Le Bon and Bernays
(and Schopenhauer). Today, those methods are systematized and so integral
to modern social media that they're like water to a fish (invisible).
I'm re-reading McLuhan's 'Understanding Media' and appreciating his
insight and foresight.
I've decided to NOT respond to the rhetorical questions and silly
statements of Peter. I've had enough of such tar-baby arguments. Your
citations ought to suffice. Especially the '25 Points' document. I read
'Mein Kampf' years ago... studied parts of it in undergrand and grad
school. Now it's officially back in the world and we'll see what comes of
that. The Muslims are avid readers of this book.
A few years ago, I had a young Arab guy from Hevron start talking to me
about Hitler. He was well informed and thought highly of him. Unlike most
Jews, I acknowledge Hitler's brilliance and mastery of rhetoric. I hate
what he did, but think it's foolish to call him deranged. He gave voice to
sentiments that were common in the world... many from ancient times.
Today, more people think the same way about Jews than in Hitler's own
time. I don't believe it's justified since the things they talk about are
almost always part of the Human Process (that is, common to everyone).
Mostly, people don't understand Judaism... and this is because Jews also
don't understand it! It's not a noun, but a verb. It's a way of thinking
based on freedom and arguing about everything. That, to me, isn't a
condemnation. Abraham was the first Anarcho-Libertarian. Ayn Rand would've
gotten along just fine with him (as far as she was able to get along with
anyone). All that 'cosen people' stuff is misrepresented. The question to
ask is 'chosen for what, exactly?' I say, chosen to be stubborn,
argumentative, and refusing to bow down to arbitrary authority.
Back to your French trip. I've wanted to visit Paris since I was a
teenager. I wanted to go to the restaurant Au Chien Qui Fume, where one of
my favorite mystical philosopher writers Crowley spent so much time. I also
wanted to see if the French 'Sisters of Mercy' lived up to their reputation.
But those 'wandervogel' days are long gone and now my focus is on
visiting as much of Israel as I can before I'm not allowed to go to ancient
Jewish places. This is a troubling reality... the number of places I can
visit without any trouble has decreased dramatically over the past nearly
12 years. In the near future, I'll be forbidden, by law, from freely
traveling in large parts of Judea and Samaria.
Thanks for your insights and suggestions. Will do my best to find
information on the works you mention.
As my friend Robert Anton Wilson would often say, 'Keep the pizza
All the best...
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:06 PM, douglas rankine <
Hi Chien & Peter,
Whilst on holiday in France and completely oblivious to the goings on
between the government and workers of the country...until it was time to
get petrol to get home...:-). I was lucky to find some in a garage in the
middle of France. Apparently the Socialist President Hollande of France was
in the process of teaching the workers of France all about improving
democracy and socialism by introducing new laws which extended the working
week from 35 hours to 64 and cutting back on pensions, increasing the
pensionable age, and making it easier for employers to sack people so that
the employers could be induced to employ more workers and help expand the
economy and make working people better off...:-). The workers of France
aren't particularly pleased with the way in which the lessons are being
taught, neither are they very pleased with the intended outcome...in fact
they have found Hollande's conclusions quite revolting...if you will pardon
In between my housing project and other researches, I read a few books
which you may...or there again...may not be interested in reading...
One was a trilogy of books by Ken Follett, called the Century Trilogy,
Fall of Giants and its follow ups, and the other was a biography of
Gertrude Bell by Georgina Howell.
The trilogy by Follett is a fictional work of history, which deals with
some of the main events taken from conventional history of the 19th and
20th century right up until the 1980s. What I like about this series of
books is how well the history is researched and how well the novels are put
together, with a linking of fictional characters, families and situations
tied in with historic events. They make the lives of people at the time
come alive somehow. In particular I would like to draw both of your
attentions to the period leading up to and between the 1st and 2nd World
Wars, in the UK. Palestine, the creation of the state of Israel, the taking
over of power in Germany by the NSDAP, the USA and protectionism and
interference, Russia the defeat of the Tzar and the landed aristocracy, the
takeover by the Bolsheviks and the creation of the Soviet Union and the
creation of a number of new Middle Eastern States when the geographical
lines and political entities were redrawn as a result of the Versailles
Treaty and various other aspects of secret diplomacy. He looks at the
abstract theories and beliefs of politics and philosophies, which governed
the events at the time, and how the various ruling classes, circles and
establishments interpreted them; and with the use of some fictional
characters introduces the reader to the practical happenings taken from
real events which occurred in all of those countries at the actual time.
History turns out not quite what it seems, or how it was supposed to turn
out. His fictional history of the ups and downs of a German family in the
years from 1933 to 1945 in Germany, I found particularly interesting.
The work by Georgina Howell, is a much more factual historical account of
a very unusual woman, Gertrude Bell, and how she, from a background of the
ruling English UK establishment played a very important role in formulating
UK foreign policy in the Middle East, in particular the Arab, Moslem
countries during the first three decades of the 20th century. She was not
only a polymath and a British Spy, she was a great mountain climber, walker
and explorer of countries throughout the Middle East, working very closely
with the Arab Moslems, the many tribes of Bedouins and the various
countries and personalities who were involved in the creation of Iraq at
the time, including Winston Churchill, Balfour and Lawrence of Arabia. She
managed to survive through all of the male attacks and prejudices put in
her way, trying to prevent her from learning about Arab and Moslem culture
and attempts to subdue her by various authorities, from Government
Ministers to Arab Sheiks, even being trusted by some of them. Her reports
were much valued at the time and are an important part of the historical
record of the Middle East and the British and French ruling class ideas at
For more on Gertrude Bell, her history, background, the role she played
and the reports she produced, you can find out on Amazon or in Wikipedia.
See url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_Bell
I must say, I do love fiction in all its forms and think that historical
fiction is one of the best ways of explaining all that is good and bad in
the world...and gives the writer so much leeway to accommodate their own
views and interpretations of the world, the universe and what it is all
I was thinking about doing a treatise on the superior Aryan race and how
it dealt with the Biblical Chosen people, and how their blood line and
intellectual, political, philosophical and practical activities made them
think that they were superior, and how the Chosen people came to be chosen,
and how I cannot be one of them...but then I thought...can I be bothered, I
would rather stay as I am, unenlightened, stupid, full of prejudices,
dogmatism, contrariness, ignorance, hypocrisy...and in deep shit most of
the time...but at least I am happy in the shit...it can be a nice warm
place to be in...and most people avoid delving in the shit...unless they
have a penchant for it...:-).
Cest la vie.
On 08/05/2016 16:44, Peter Presland wrote:
On 08/05/2016 10:57, Chien Fume wrote:
Doug - You've provided a good overview of the issue. Another summary isSo tell us Chien, what exactly was the NSDAP planning?
It might have more credence in some quarters since it comes from a
It's interesting to watch how people are reacting to this
well-documented historical event. In Israel, it's caused an uproar and
shown the extent to which most people are misinformed. Or, perhaps, so
troubled by the facts that they must resort to sophistry and flat-out
(but clearly foolish) denial.
There was enormous, often violent opposition to the effort to get Jews
to go to Palestine. The super-religious were the worst of all and simply
refused to acknowledge the plain facts regarding what the NSDAP was
One influential Rabbi who strongly opposed Jabotinsky's call
for massive aliyah lived just long enough to regret his stance. While onWhat was happening to them Chien?
the run from the Nazis, he wrote one of the most compelling arguments in
favor of religious Jews going to Palestine. But he died at the hands of
the -- although his book survived and still influences Jews to this
While the Labour (Marxist) Zionists got the most benefit from the
agreement with the Nazis, people in the other side of the Zionist
movement also wanted to do anything that would help rescue Jews from
what was happening.
Ben Hecht's 'Perfidy' opened the can of worms and proved that the Ben
Gurion Zionists (the Marxists) were, indeed, deeply involved with theWhy Sovereign *Jewish* state Chien? why not just *sovereign* and
Nazis... a subject that's still 'sensitive' here in Israel and seemingly
impervious to objective analysis.
Suffice to say that the Ben Gurion klatch won the civil war when they
sunk the Altalena and murdered Jews who were escaping the sinking ship.
By sinking the Altalena, Ben Gurion assured an Arab victory that let
Jordan illegally occupy huge parts of Israel until 1967.
Currently, the ruling elite are busy as termites undoing all the
progress towards a sovereign Jewish State as defined in the 1922
required to conform with the same international norms that International
Jewry prescribes for the rest of the world?
The malicious desire to reduce, then eliminate what's left of the
never-really-Jewish State is intensifying, and unless Jews (religiousAnd what a celebration for the rest of humanity that will be. But
and secular) in Israel stand up and fight, it's quite likely that Israel
will lose what little sovereignty it has.
frankly, with the sheer insular insanity evidenced by the Israeli
Likudnik power-freaks, I reckon we'll likely see some version of the
Sampson option first
The stated goal is a return to
the mythical 'Golden Age' when Arabs and Jews supposedly (but didn'tWhy does your brand of Judaism require special treatment only for Jews
really) lived in harmony. But the result will be a return to inequality
and subjugation (dhimmitude) for Jews.
http://www.dhimmitude.org/d_history_dhimmitude.html As in 'Animal
Islamic ideology says that all of us are equal, but Muslims are more
equal than those of us who refuse to submit to their deadly theocracy.
and the State of Israel. Is it because you believe you are "Chosen" and
thus in some fashion superior to the Goyim that you live among?
For those who champion the anti-Israel cause, one can only say that
eventually the Muslims will also subjugate them. That's what's reallyAh; I see. Have the thoroughly befuddled Christian and Muslim worlds
fight Huntingdon's "Clash of civilisations" to the death so that the
Chosenites finally triumph and get to build their mythical 3rd Temple.
Something like that I guess. Right?
All the best from the front lines of one of history's longest battles
for genuine freedom (more than 1,400 years since Mohamed's armyAs an example of deeply duplicitous crocodile tears, that para really
slaughtered the Jews of Khaybar and got the wealth and power that would
help them conquer and subjugate many civilizations... and provide the
inspiration for the Islamic Empire we're seeing manifest in many
places... such as Iraq, Syria, and London)...
does take the biscuit.
As if Israel does not have its fingerprints over all the vast death and
destruction that has rained on the Middle East since 1945 and especially
since that fateful day in September 2011
Israel was born in a Bloody ethnic-cleansing conflict that has continued
ever since. It will see no peace unless and until it can bring itself to
treat non-Jews - in all respects - equally; which of course is never
going to happen. So God help us all (Not just the Chosenites I say)
On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 8:50 PM, douglas rankine
and url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
"The Haavara Agreement was an agreement between Nazi Germany
Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933.
The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the
Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under
the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic
of Nazi Germany.
The agreement was designed to help facilitate the emigration of
German Jews to Palestine.
While it helped Jews emigrate, it forced them to temporarily
give up possessions to Germany before departing. Those
possessions could later be re-obtained by transferring them to
Palestine as German export goods.
The agreement was controversial at the time, and was criticised
by many Jewish leaders both within the Zionist movement and
Hitler’s own support of the Haavara Agreement was unclear and
varied throughout the 1930s.
Initially, Hitler criticized the agreement, but reversed his
opinion and supported it in the period 1937-1939."