Wow what a tale! Always interesting to read alternate viewpoints. Cheers CLIFF
My fathers Ukrainian/Polish/Jewish family was, for the most part completely
wiped out during WW2.
On 2016-06-04, at 7:36 AM, Samuel Birbeck wrote:
Fuck off Peter.
On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Peter Presland <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
You confirm the assessment implied in my original reply below. Viz, that
you are a quintessentially modern young(ish) example of the Israeli
Hasbara in in action. I confess that my reply was provocative; that was
my intention. It was done to elicit precisely the sort of reply that I
expected and got, ie pure demeaning ad-hominem with zero substance. FI
(in case you have missed the odd earlier post of mine - and since you
raise the matter with your tar-baby remark), I am considerably older
than you and warrant that I have spent the past 15 years in full-time
study of modern history in which pre-war German and dissident Anglo
policy/opinion, together with so-called 'revisionist' post war
research/opinion is given similar weight to those of the current
consensus establishment.
My understanding of historical fact is therefore vastly different from
yours. And that would be fine were the differences open to reasonable
debate and discourse, but of course they are not. Only one
interpretation is allowed. It is of the 'Jews as history's eternal
victims - a victimhood that reached its apotheosis in "The Holocaust"'.
As long as that is accepted (which in practice means supported and
promoted as well), everything else is OK for debate. But I do NOT accept
it and, since my evidence and reasons are so profoundly unsettling to
our current Jewish dominated (or at least fawningly supportive) western
establishment, ad-hominem attack is all the Hasbara are left with.
I recognise I may be wrong in some of my interpretation of evidence. I
expect the same from others. My interpretation is not dissimilar to this:
http://mouqawamahmusic.net/the-fake-6-million-vs-the-real-29-million-jewish-lies-jewish-crimes-and-the-collapse-of-the-jewish-discourse-paradigm/
And here is an example of the outrageous deceptions of the Victors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vs1eR7hsT8
And here is his sister's take on her bother Adolf Hitler.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZwwTGcboQk
All that I seek is open debate on the sort of evidence presented above,
instead of which I get a patronising ad-hominem - A microcosm of the
situation prevailing in the somnambulant West generally.
"The Holocaust" narrative remains the primary enabler of a powerful
taboo which renders open discussion of Jewish ethno-centric Power and
its excercise throughout the 20th century right up to today impossible -
absent serious adverse consequences. That is a damning indictment of the
west
You have an interesting take on 'chosenness' but, as you surely must
know, it is a mere fragment of Judaic teaching on the matter. It also
obfuscates less pleasant strands of Jewish indentity politics, such as
yelling 'antisemite' at the first hint of effective taboo-challenge -
which, couched in a veneer of elegant discourse, is exactly what you
did. But no matter; I count it as another badge of honour and propose
that its meaning be revised from 'someone who doesn't like Jews' to the
infinately more accurate 'someone who Jews don't like'.
Peter Presland
On 02/06/2016 19:50, Chien Fume wrote:
Hi Doug. Glad you made is back from France. Interesting observations
about what's really going on there. Leaders around the world seem
determined to make life tough for normal people. At exactly the moment
in history when it's possible to improve the living conditions of almost
everyone, and to ensure genuine liberty, the power elite and the
hypnotized chickens with iPhones and designer clothes have decided to
roll everything back to 7th century savagery.
I'm watching the latest Adam Curtis documentary "Bitter Lake" for the
first time. I always need to watch Curtis' films at least three times or
more. As usual, Curtis opens a perspective that does a splendid job of
explaining things. He's always seemed to be one of the most honest
reporters I can think of. All his documentaries are worth careful study.
I'm also listening to the audio book of A.E. Van Vogt's 'World of Null
A'. I've been studying General Semantics for a long time. Some of its
concepts were even part of my education. So the book is interesting on
many levels.
Interesting bit you wrote about the fiction works you've read. How
they're affecting you. We often get more from fiction than from fact.
When people describe dramatic real-life events, they'll often say 'it
was like a movie'. If you've ever been in a real gun battle, you'll know
it's true that things seem to slow down. You don't really hear the
gunfire as you do when on the shooting range. Afterwards, when writing
the 'after-action report' the words often come out in a mechanical
way... like a third-person observer robot. The language tends to be
artificial... perhaps because there's a psychological need to distance
oneself from what happened. But, when having a few Black & Tans (or
Coors) and talking about it with others, the language is natural, more
honest (I think). Leading some to suggest that we forego the written
report and go straight to the Black & Tan chat... let some secretary
make a transcript. By the way, whenever possible, I prefer Belhaven Ale
- difficult to find in Israel.
I think Walter Benjamin addressed some of these ideas about how cinema
changed how we see the world. He was quite insightful in his writing
about cinema (still in its early stages at the time). I'm going through
what I can find online from the book 'From Caligari to Hitler'... how
cinema became so important to the Nazis... eventually surpassing radio.
Films like 'Jud Sus' and 'Der Ewige Jude' were considered factual
documentaries and were required study for prison guards. It was film
that put the fine point on the psychological conditioning the Nazis
learned from Le Bon and Bernays (and Schopenhauer). Today, those methods
are systematized and so integral to modern social media that they're
like water to a fish (invisible).
I'm re-reading McLuhan's 'Understanding Media' and appreciating his
insight and foresight.
I've decided to NOT respond to the rhetorical questions and silly
statements of Peter. I've had enough of such tar-baby arguments. Your
citations ought to suffice. Especially the '25 Points' document. I read
'Mein Kampf' years ago... studied parts of it in undergrand and grad
school. Now it's officially back in the world and we'll see what comes
of that. The Muslims are avid readers of this book.
A few years ago, I had a young Arab guy from Hevron start talking to me
about Hitler. He was well informed and thought highly of him. Unlike
most Jews, I acknowledge Hitler's brilliance and mastery of rhetoric. I
hate what he did, but think it's foolish to call him deranged. He gave
voice to sentiments that were common in the world... many from ancient
times.
Today, more people think the same way about Jews than in Hitler's own
time. I don't believe it's justified since the things they talk about
are almost always part of the Human Process (that is, common to everyone).
Mostly, people don't understand Judaism... and this is because Jews also
don't understand it! It's not a noun, but a verb. It's a way of thinking
based on freedom and arguing about everything. That, to me, isn't a
condemnation. Abraham was the first Anarcho-Libertarian. Ayn Rand
would've gotten along just fine with him (as far as she was able to get
along with anyone). All that 'cosen people' stuff is misrepresented. The
question to ask is 'chosen for what, exactly?' I say, chosen to be
stubborn, argumentative, and refusing to bow down to arbitrary authority.
Back to your French trip. I've wanted to visit Paris since I was a
teenager. I wanted to go to the restaurant Au Chien Qui Fume, where one
of my favorite mystical philosopher writers Crowley spent so much time.
I also wanted to see if the French 'Sisters of Mercy' lived up to their
reputation.
But those 'wandervogel' days are long gone and now my focus is on
visiting as much of Israel as I can before I'm not allowed to go to
ancient Jewish places. This is a troubling reality... the number of
places I can visit without any trouble has decreased dramatically over
the past nearly 12 years. In the near future, I'll be forbidden, by law,
from freely traveling in large parts of Judea and Samaria.
Thanks for your insights and suggestions. Will do my best to find
information on the works you mention.
As my friend Robert Anton Wilson would often say, 'Keep the pizza flying'...
All the best...
CF
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:06 PM, douglas rankine
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi Chien & Peter,
Whilst on holiday in France and completely oblivious to the goings
on between the government and workers of the country...until it was
time to get petrol to get home...:-). I was lucky to find some in a
garage in the middle of France. Apparently the Socialist President
Hollande of France was in the process of teaching the workers of
France all about improving democracy and socialism by introducing
new laws which extended the working week from 35 hours to 64 and
cutting back on pensions, increasing the pensionable age, and making
it easier for employers to sack people so that the employers could
be induced to employ more workers and help expand the economy and
make working people better off...:-). The workers of France aren't
particularly pleased with the way in which the lessons are being
taught, neither are they very pleased with the intended outcome...in
fact they have found Hollande's conclusions quite revolting...if you
will pardon the pun...:-).
In between my housing project and other researches, I read a few
books which you may...or there again...may not be interested in
reading...
One was a trilogy of books by Ken Follett, called the Century
Trilogy, Fall of Giants and its follow ups, and the other was a
biography of Gertrude Bell by Georgina Howell.
The trilogy by Follett is a fictional work of history, which deals
with some of the main events taken from conventional history of the
19th and 20th century right up until the 1980s. What I like about
this series of books is how well the history is researched and how
well the novels are put together, with a linking of fictional
characters, families and situations tied in with historic events.
They make the lives of people at the time come alive somehow. In
particular I would like to draw both of your attentions to the
period leading up to and between the 1st and 2nd World Wars, in the
UK. Palestine, the creation of the state of Israel, the taking over
of power in Germany by the NSDAP, the USA and protectionism and
interference, Russia the defeat of the Tzar and the landed
aristocracy, the takeover by the Bolsheviks and the creation of the
Soviet Union and the creation of a number of new Middle Eastern
States when the geographical lines and political entities were
redrawn as a result of the Versailles Treaty and various other
aspects of secret diplomacy. He looks at the abstract theories and
beliefs of politics and philosophies, which governed the events at
the time, and how the various ruling classes, circles and
establishments interpreted them; and with the use of some fictional
characters introduces the reader to the practical happenings taken
from real events which occurred in all of those countries at the
actual time. History turns out not quite what it seems, or how it
was supposed to turn out. His fictional history of the ups and
downs of a German family in the years from 1933 to 1945 in Germany,
I found particularly interesting.
The work by Georgina Howell, is a much more factual historical
account of a very unusual woman, Gertrude Bell, and how she, from a
background of the ruling English UK establishment played a very
important role in formulating UK foreign policy in the Middle East,
in particular the Arab, Moslem countries during the first three
decades of the 20th century. She was not only a polymath and a
British Spy, she was a great mountain climber, walker and explorer
of countries throughout the Middle East, working very closely with
the Arab Moslems, the many tribes of Bedouins and the various
countries and personalities who were involved in the creation of
Iraq at the time, including Winston Churchill, Balfour and Lawrence
of Arabia. She managed to survive through all of the male attacks
and prejudices put in her way, trying to prevent her from learning
about Arab and Moslem culture and attempts to subdue her by various
authorities, from Government Ministers to Arab Sheiks, even being
trusted by some of them. Her reports were much valued at the time
and are an important part of the historical record of the Middle
East and the British and French ruling class ideas at the time.
For more on Gertrude Bell, her history, background, the role she
played and the reports she produced, you can find out on Amazon or
in Wikipedia.
See url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_Bell
I must say, I do love fiction in all its forms and think that
historical fiction is one of the best ways of explaining all that is
good and bad in the world...and gives the writer so much leeway to
accommodate their own views and interpretations of the world, the
universe and what it is all about.
I was thinking about doing a treatise on the superior Aryan race and
how it dealt with the Biblical Chosen people, and how their blood
line and intellectual, political, philosophical and practical
activities made them think that they were superior, and how the
Chosen people came to be chosen, and how I cannot be one of
them...but then I thought...can I be bothered, I would rather stay
as I am, unenlightened, stupid, full of prejudices, dogmatism,
contrariness, ignorance, hypocrisy...and in deep shit most of the
time...but at least I am happy in the shit...it can be a nice warm
place to be in...and most people avoid delving in the shit...unless
they have a penchant for it...:-).
Cest la vie.
Dougie.
On 08/05/2016 16:44, Peter Presland wrote:
On 08/05/2016 10:57, Chien Fume wrote:
Doug - You've provided a good overview of the issue. Another
summary is
found here:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0008_0_08075.html
It might have more credence in some quarters since it comes
from a
'Jewish' source.
It's interesting to watch how people are reacting to this
well-documented historical event. In Israel, it's caused an
uproar and
shown the extent to which most people are misinformed. Or,
perhaps, so
troubled by the facts that they must resort to sophistry and
flat-out
(but clearly foolish) denial.
There was enormous, often violent opposition to the effort
to get Jews
to go to Palestine. The super-religious were the worst of
all and simply
refused to acknowledge the plain facts regarding what the
NSDAP was
planning.
So tell us Chien, what exactly was the NSDAP planning?
One influential Rabbi who strongly opposed Jabotinsky's call
for massive aliyah lived just long enough to regret his
stance. While on
the run from the Nazis, he wrote one of the most compelling
arguments in
favor of religious Jews going to Palestine. But he died at
the hands of
the -- although his book survived and still influences Jews
to this
day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yissachar_Shlomo_Teichtal
While the Labour (Marxist) Zionists got the most benefit
from the
agreement with the Nazis, people in the other side of the
Zionist
movement also wanted to do anything that would help rescue
Jews from
what was happening.
What was happening to them Chien?
Ben Hecht's 'Perfidy' opened the can of worms and proved
that the Ben
Gurion Zionists (the Marxists) were, indeed, deeply involved
with the
Nazis... a subject that's still 'sensitive' here in Israel
and seemingly
impervious to objective analysis.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/BHecht.html
Suffice to say that the Ben Gurion klatch won the civil war
when they
sunk the Altalena and murdered Jews who were escaping the
sinking ship.
By sinking the Altalena, Ben Gurion assured an Arab victory
that let
Jordan illegally occupy huge parts of Israel until 1967.
Currently, the ruling elite are busy as termites undoing all the
progress towards a sovereign Jewish State as defined in the 1922
Partition
http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/mandate_for_palestine/mandate_for_palestine.htm
Why Sovereign *Jewish* state Chien? why not just *sovereign* and
required to conform with the same international norms that
International
Jewry prescribes for the rest of the world?
The malicious desire to reduce, then eliminate what's left
of the
never-really-Jewish State is intensifying, and unless Jews
(religious
and secular) in Israel stand up and fight, it's quite likely
that Israel
will lose what little sovereignty it has.
And what a celebration for the rest of humanity that will be. But
frankly, with the sheer insular insanity evidenced by the Israeli
Likudnik power-freaks, I reckon we'll likely see some version of the
Sampson option first
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Israel/Samson_Option
The stated goal is a return to
the mythical 'Golden Age' when Arabs and Jews supposedly
(but didn't
really) lived in harmony. But the result will be a return to
inequality
and subjugation (dhimmitude) for Jews.
http://www.dhimmitude.org/d_history_dhimmitude.html As in
'Animal Farm',
Islamic ideology says that all of us are equal, but Muslims
are more
equal than those of us who refuse to submit to their deadly
theocracy.
Why does your brand of Judaism require special treatment only
for Jews
and the State of Israel. Is it because you believe you are
"Chosen" and
thus in some fashion superior to the Goyim that you live among?
For those who champion the anti-Israel cause, one can only
say that
eventually the Muslims will also subjugate them. That's
what's really
happening. https://youtu.be/t_Qpy0mXg8Y
Ah; I see. Have the thoroughly befuddled Christian and Muslim worlds
fight Huntingdon's "Clash of civilisations" to the death so that the
Chosenites finally triumph and get to build their mythical 3rd
Temple.
Something like that I guess. Right?
All the best from the front lines of one of history's
longest battles
for genuine freedom (more than 1,400 years since Mohamed's army
slaughtered the Jews of Khaybar and got the wealth and power
that would
help them conquer and subjugate many civilizations... and
provide the
inspiration for the Islamic Empire we're seeing manifest in many
places... such as Iraq, Syria, and London)...
CF
As an example of deeply duplicitous crocodile tears, that para
really
does take the biscuit.
As if Israel does not have its fingerprints over all the vast
death and
destruction that has rained on the Middle East since 1945 and
especially
since that fateful day in September 2011
Israel was born in a Bloody ethnic-cleansing conflict that has
continued
ever since. It will see no peace unless and until it can bring
itself to
treat non-Jews - in all respects - equally; which of course is never
going to happen. So God help us all (Not just the Chosenites I say)
Peter P
On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 8:50 PM, douglas rankine
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
see url:
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/04/28/livingstone-vindicated-there-was-a-nazi-zionist-agreement-and-hitler-did-support-it/
and url: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
Dear Colleagues,
"The Haavara Agreement was an agreement between
Nazi Germany and
Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933.
The agreement was finalized after three months of
talks by the
Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine
Bank (under
the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the
economic authorities
of Nazi Germany.
The agreement was designed to help facilitate the
emigration of
German Jews to Palestine.
While it helped Jews emigrate, it forced them to
temporarily
give up possessions to Germany before departing. Those
possessions could later be re-obtained by
transferring them to
Palestine as German export goods.
The agreement was controversial at the time, and
was criticised
by many Jewish leaders both within the Zionist
movement and
outside it.
Hitler’s own support of the Haavara Agreement was
unclear and
varied throughout the 1930s.
Initially, Hitler criticized the agreement, but
reversed his
opinion and supported it in the period 1937-1939."
ATB
Dougie.