That’s a great way of putting it, Leslie. That matches what I’ve seen, as well.
I’ll have to reflect on times where I’ve been shamed in the work and how that’s
kept me in a place of belonging. The challenge with this work is that people
new to it don’t understand some of the theory or philosophy of healing, trauma,
shame, bonds, etc….if they did, then they would understand this process better
and release some core issues.
Great wisdom about not getting intense in it:)
Heather
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 2:28 PM
To: Constellation Talk <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Orders of love and trauma
I’ve only experienced Bert and Sophie Hellinger directly once, in Mexico City
in 2015. After one day, it became very clear to me that clients were chosen for
either the “love bomb” category or the “shame” category. It felt very much to
me like a structured (if unconscious) strategy to assert authority and create
an intense sense of belonging. The love bomb work was often amazing, and I am
still affected by the beautiful, swift, non-judgmental resolutions that I saw.
The shame interactions were hard to watch and surrounded by compliance
behaviors that I was really disturbed by.
And, in the community around the Hellingers now, there is a teaching
circulating around how hierarchy means that the authority, once followed,
cannot be questioned, that’s it’s a violation of the Orders of Love. I’ve had
these arguments in other forums. I consider it a massive misunderstanding of
the Order of Love with respect to Seniority. There is a core teaching there
that is really important, but it’s been distorted.
I think it’s important to name these cleanly, but without too much energy or
intensity. If we are expending too much energy on resisting this, we can get
swept up in the victim/perpetrator dance ourselves.
So glad for the perspectives on this list!
The Rev. Leslie Nipps
Convivium Constellations - Founder, Practitioner & Trainer
“Trust as a Way of Life…”
www.conviviumconstellations.com <http://www.conviviumconstellations.com>
"Hasten to that which supports." - The I Ching
On Apr 19, 2017, at 9:56 AM, Janice Crawford jcrawford4000@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:jcrawford4000@xxxxxxxxx> [ConstellationTalk]
<ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
wrote:
A grateful beneficiary of Hellinger's work (in fact I've even written a very
personal book about that), I'm also grateful for this discussion.
While I have sometimes ultimately gained a great deal from moments of
forcefulness from a facilitator, I do feel that it appears the client was put
in a primal survival/soul conflict here The mother reps leaning into the
client's space with needs that were oblivious to the clients reaction were
energetically aggressively (predatory) - though at moments loving. And it
appeared to me that instinctually the client wanted to push away (fight) and
run (flee) rather than (collapse) and submit energetically (die). And then she
was attacked with the microphone...
It is Hellinger 101, but perhaps suggesting they stand and find their places
and then giving the mother some resources might have allowed a next step to
unfold.
I do also know that there is the story of years ago H wrestling a very tall
much younger man to the ground for not bowing to his father. Years later that
man was a sensitive rep of my grandfather in a constellation.
So for me one of the questions that comes out of this excellent discussion
involves the interface of instinctual response, ego narrative protection and
soul movement. Jan Crawford
On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Gertrud Yasutake gy1800@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:gy1800@xxxxxxxxxxx> [ConstellationTalk]
<ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
wrote:
What I see watching this video clip:
The constellation takes place in Russia.
The constellation is done sitting down in a row of seating behind another row
of seated people.
This location gives a sense of being cramped and not allotted the proper space
for whatever issue is addressed.
The facilitator stands and moves around while the representatives sit and
cannot move much, the height difference.
At some point there is some jovial rapport between the two representatives.
The facilitator does a lot of finger pointing.
The daughter's representative is locked in a long look with the facilitator,
looking up at her with a set and closed face. She gets hit on the head by the
facilitator with the mike (an instrument of power).
The sitting women have no support, male or otherwise. The female facilitator
HAS support from a male.
The male steps in and sends another woman out of the room.
Words of life and death are spoken.
Some interpretation: The constellation has become a Russia issue. Russia has a
very long history of repression, first in the history of serfdom and later in
the history of communism. As Hunter Beaumont explained in one of his workshops,
in many countries that suffer violence, the men become decimated through war
and other terrors. The women have to become the survivors and strong in
carrying on.
The constellation shows three kind of reactions to tyranny: the ones that
disappear, the ones that try to cooperate (mother’s rep) and the ones that
rebel. Sophie and Bert were part of that constellation.
Gertrud Yasutake
________________________________
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > on behalf of Giselle Charbonnier
gisellecharbonnier@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:gisellecharbonnier@xxxxxxxxx>
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 8:40 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Orders of love and trauma
Dear ones,
I have been wanting to connect with you about this for some months… Someone
sent me a video from Bert which I find quite disturbing. Since then, I have
mixed feelings... I would really appreciate you let me know your
feelings/thoughts about it.
We know the truth he - and Sophie - are holding and yet, in my heart, and as a
trauma therapist, I can’t accept this violence, which also seems unnecessary.
There is some kind of fundamentalism about the orders of love that seems to be
very disconnected. I really wonder about the effects this has… I could say
more, but I would really love if you could let me know what your thoughts are…
The video is in German and Russian… but if you can’t understand the words, at
least you can see the faces and the moment Sophie hits a participant with the
microphone, and, afterwards Bert sends out someone who complains about this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjp7Frr3QjQ
[https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.LhPIvLFpm3ckhMNxbB59ugEsDh ;
<https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.LhPIvLFpm3ckhMNxbB59ugEsDh&pid=Api>
&pid=Api]<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjp7Frr3QjQ>
Видео 2<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjp7Frr3QjQ>
www.youtube.com <http://www.youtube.com/>
"Новые" техники семейных расстановок показанные Софией и Бертом Хеллингером на
семинаре ...
With love and gratitude,
Giselle
[cid:9591B616-6606-4A53-89F9-A0549E7ECF5B@fritz.box
<mailto:A0549E7ECF5B@xxxxxxxxx> ]
www.interbeing.space <http://www.interbeing.space> <http://www.interbeing.space ;
<http://www.interbeing.space/> >
Integracion Personal : Técnicas Psicofisicas y Sistémicas
...<http://www.interbeing.space/>
www.interbeing.space <http://www.interbeing.space>
El ser humano es una totalidad indivisible -cuerpo, mente y alma- e inseparable
del contexto mayor que incluye sus vínculos con otros seres humanos y con su
entorno.
Giselle Charbonnier
+49 (0)163 834 1924 <tel:+49%20163%208341924>
Bevernstr. 6, 10997, Berlin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
