Thank you for sharing this understanding, Jan. I can see what you mean in
understanding the layers of the Self, which is the source of abuse. What would
have been a more empowering or enlightening movement would be that Sophie or
Bert acknowledge that would be the natural action – to inflict violence – which
could be the issue the child has with the mother…not sure. And that would be
part of acknowledging what is – where it brings to light the dysfunction and
disconnection without inflicting power. As a facilitator, I know the
responsibility I have as a perceived authority figure, even though my role is
to listen to the movement and energy. I really appreciated the facilitators
who explained or informed the group of what the problem or issue is, rather
than forcing someone to respect the abusive parent blindly.
I appreciate this discussion, too:) Thank you:)
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 12:56 PM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Orders of love and trauma
A grateful beneficiary of Hellinger's work (in fact I've even written a very
personal book about that), I'm also grateful for this discussion.
While I have sometimes ultimately gained a great deal from moments of
forcefulness from a facilitator, I do feel that it appears the client was put
in a primal survival/soul conflict here The mother reps leaning into the
client's space with needs that were oblivious to the clients reaction were
energetically aggressively (predatory) - though at moments loving. And it
appeared to me that instinctually the client wanted to push away (fight) and
run (flee) rather than (collapse) and submit energetically (die). And then she
was attacked with the microphone...
It is Hellinger 101, but perhaps suggesting they stand and find their places
and then giving the mother some resources might have allowed a next step to
unfold.
I do also know that there is the story of years ago H wrestling a very tall
much younger man to the ground for not bowing to his father. Years later that
man was a sensitive rep of my grandfather in a constellation.
So for me one of the questions that comes out of this excellent discussion
involves the interface of instinctual response, ego narrative protection and
soul movement. Jan Crawford
On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Gertrud Yasutake gy1800@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:gy1800@xxxxxxxxxxx> [ConstellationTalk]
<ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
wrote:
What I see watching this video clip:
The constellation takes place in Russia.
The constellation is done sitting down in a row of seating behind another row
of seated people.
This location gives a sense of being cramped and not allotted the proper space
for whatever issue is addressed.
The facilitator stands and moves around while the representatives sit and
cannot move much, the height difference.
At some point there is some jovial rapport between the two representatives.
The facilitator does a lot of finger pointing.
The daughter's representative is locked in a long look with the facilitator,
looking up at her with a set and closed face. She gets hit on the head by the
facilitator with the mike (an instrument of power).
The sitting women have no support, male or otherwise. The female facilitator
HAS support from a male.
The male steps in and sends another woman out of the room.
Words of life and death are spoken.
Some interpretation: The constellation has become a Russia issue. Russia has a
very long history of repression, first in the history of serfdom and later in
the history of communism. As Hunter Beaumont explained in one of his workshops,
in many countries that suffer violence, the men become decimated through war
and other terrors. The women have to become the survivors and strong in
carrying on.
The constellation shows three kind of reactions to tyranny: the ones that
disappear, the ones that try to cooperate (mother’s rep) and the ones that
rebel. Sophie and Bert were part of that constellation.
Gertrud Yasutake
________________________________
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > on behalf of Giselle Charbonnier
gisellecharbonnier@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:gisellecharbonnier@xxxxxxxxx>
[ConstellationTalk] <ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 8:40 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Orders of love and trauma
Dear ones,
I have been wanting to connect with you about this for some months… Someone
sent me a video from Bert which I find quite disturbing. Since then, I have
mixed feelings... I would really appreciate you let me know your
feelings/thoughts about it.
We know the truth he - and Sophie - are holding and yet, in my heart, and as a
trauma therapist, I can’t accept this violence, which also seems unnecessary.
There is some kind of fundamentalism about the orders of love that seems to be
very disconnected. I really wonder about the effects this has… I could say
more, but I would really love if you could let me know what your thoughts are…
The video is in German and Russian… but if you can’t understand the words, at
least you can see the faces and the moment Sophie hits a participant with the
microphone, and, afterwards Bert sends out someone who complains about this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjp7Frr3QjQ
[https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.LhPIvLFpm3ckhMNxbB59ugEsDh ;
<https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.LhPIvLFpm3ckhMNxbB59ugEsDh&pid=Api>
&pid=Api]<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjp7Frr3QjQ>
Видео 2<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjp7Frr3QjQ>
www.youtube.com <http://www.youtube.com>
"Новые" техники семейных расстановок показанные Софией и Бертом Хеллингером на
семинаре ...
With love and gratitude,
Giselle
[cid:9591B616-6606-4A53-89F9-A0549E7ECF5B@fritz.box]
www.interbeing.space<http://www.interbeing.space>
Integracion Personal : Técnicas Psicofisicas y Sistémicas
...<http://www.interbeing.space/>
www.interbeing.space <http://www.interbeing.space>
El ser humano es una totalidad indivisible -cuerpo, mente y alma- e inseparable
del contexto mayor que incluye sus vínculos con otros seres humanos y con su
entorno.
Giselle Charbonnier
+49 (0)163 834 1924 <tel:+49%20163%208341924>
Bevernstr. 6, 10997, Berlin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
