Badges - Re: A Question For Everyone
- From: SWColony@xxxxxxx
- To: badges@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:25:03 -0400 (EDT)
Well, the patrol guys use them for patrol, but they have always driven
marked units. The Inspectors drove unmarked units. But a year or so ago, the
decision was made to go with marked units across the board to increase
visibility. Inspectors were not happy and, for the most part, still aren't.
The unmarked units are slowly being phased out. Personally, I have always
loved my jet black Tahoe with tinted windows, even thought it looks
straight off the set of "24".
For the marked Tahoes, Inspectors get a choice of 4WD or the 2WD Chevy
police package (PPV). The nice thing is that they have the dual M4 and
Remington 870 racks right up front. What sucks is that they all have full
cages.
But when the government gives you a takehome G-ride and pays for the gas,
I try not to complain too much. Beats burning my own gas and putting
miles on my own truck to get to and from work!
Russell
In a message dated 8/30/2011 8:19:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
usms@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Russ, I have never understood why they painted them instead of leaving
them plain? It’s not like you’re doing patrols in them are you? I was
offered a choice this year when I changed assignments of a new Tahoe or a new
Silverado extended cab truck. I was going Tahoe until they told me it was 2
wheel drive, so I picked the truck. I miss the room but I love the 4 wheel
drive. The chief judge and the building security committee seem to rule
the roost.
B
From: badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of SWColony@xxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 9:02 PM
To: badges@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Badges - Re: A Question For Everyone
Bill,
I shudder to think how much money we have spent on those new Tahoes. A
fortune, I am sure. The guy you see if probably a COTR, poor sucker. The
problem with being a COTR is that it takes up all of your time and you don't
have time to do any police work. I recently got out from under being a
COTR and, like you, I'll take a solid boot to the fruit before I ever get
cornered into doing it again. It is miserable. Absolutely miserable.
In our federal courthouse, FPS are the only law enforcement authorized to
be armed except for USMS deputies and CSOs. However, when I lived in
Maryland, all LEOs could be armed in the federal courthouse in Baltimore. You
signed in with the CSOs when you entered and were given a lapel pin to
wear. In our local and county courts, LEOs retain their firearms. With the
federal courts, it has been my experience that it varies drastically from
District to District, based more upon the wishes of the Chief Judge than on
the Chief Deputy.
Russell
In a message dated 8/30/2011 7:54:45 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
_usms@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:usms@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) writes:
Russ you guys have really flashy Tahoes. We have one inspector we see
from time to time who seems to spend all of his time checking up on the
contract guards, testing their use of the x-ray etc. I have never heard him
talk about any kind of enforcement work other than one time he was talking
about working some kind of special assignment with FAM at bus stations. I can
tell you from my time as a JSI, I would rather get kicked in the crotch
than do that job again. Contract violations are a pain in the rear and I
don’t miss that at all.
I have to surrender my weapon when I go into the local common pleas
court. I don’t mind. I do have issue with people we don’t know carrying
firearms in our building. I don’t want them in the court rooms and me not
know
who they are. When I used to have to ride the pine I wanted me and my
partners to have the weapons and everyone else unarmed. I had enough to do
keeping track of the turds on trial and if something bad happened seeing
someone in the courtroom whip out a weapon who I didn’t know would cause me
some problems.
B
From: badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of SWColony@xxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 8:39 PM
To: badges@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Badges - Re: A Question For Everyone
Well, as an FPS LEO myself, I can tell you that the FPS Inspectors in
marked units and wearing blue BDUs are fully trained federal law enforcement
officers (graduates of either FLETC UPTP or FLETC CITP and FPS follow-on)
with the same law enforcement authority as any other federal LEO. Only
certain FPS LEOs administer the contracts, and they are designated as
Contracting Officer Technical Representatives (COTRs). Just as USMS Judicial
Security Inspectors are COTRs for the USMS CSOs, a designated FPS Inspector is
usually the COTR. However, in some areas, non-sworn FPS Physical Security
Specialists have been designated as COTRs to relieve the law enforcement
officers of that additional duty. Being a COTR is not fun. I'm pretty sure
most JSIs would agree. LOL!
It has been my experience that the contract guards (Protective Security
Officers, as they are now called) are a mixed bag. Some are terrible, some
are great, and most are somewhere in between. In my area, many are retired
police officers and quite a few are still active local or county LEOs who
are doing the contract security as a side-job.
Personally, I have no issue with cops being armed in federal facilities.
That being said, I agree with Bill that the "their house, their rules" law
has to apply. When I go into the new FBI building, I can keep my gun, but
I have to leave my Blackberry at the guard booth. Seems rather silly to
me, but their house, their rules.
In twenty years of law enforcement, I have never been asked to surrender
my weapon at a local PD, sheriff's office, or state law enforcement office.
I would find it very strange to ever see that. Obviously when going into
a custody facility, you lock your weapon up, just like everyone else.
When I visited the White House, I was "asked" to secure my weapon with the
USSS before going in. Obviously, I complied with a smile.
Russell
In a message dated 8/30/2011 7:02:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
_usms@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:usms@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) writes:
There are a couple different kinds of FPS. The FPS you see in uniforms
guarding buildings are I think just about all contract guards. They aren’t
government employees. They are hired by a private contractor and may or may
not have law enforcement background. Around this area of Ohio they
finally went to automatics. They do not carry their weapons to and from the
job
site. There are also FPS agents who from what I see appear to administer
the contracts and show up in really flashy marked patrol vehicles and wear
blue bdu’s. Not sure what enforcement authority they have. The court
security officers running the access points into the federal courts are also
contract employees. They are not government employees and they only have
authority while they are at work on the job. They are by and large completely
retired police officers. They also cannot carry their issued weapons out
of the office, so they carry their own weapons to and from. They get it and
are good guys. The take your gun off at the door policy is one I agree
with for non uniform officers or agents. In our building, if you don’t
have an office in the building, you lock your gun up at the front check point.
I don’t care if the guy has 25 years and is a 300 shooter, if he’s not
in our building and may or may not be known to the people responsible for
securing the interior and exterior, they aren’t carrying a gun. It’s a
safety issue for our guys and for the guys we make lock their weapons up. I
get into a lot of police and sheriff’s offices and very few make me remove
my weapon, but when they do, I just do it. It’s their house they can run it
the way they see fit.
From: badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Christopher Karney
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:29 PM
To: badges@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Badges - Re: A Question For Everyone
I have found the FPS guards up there with the TSA "officers" at O'Hare and
Midway Airports in terms of incompetence. The US Marshalls are a
different breed though.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 30, 2011, at 16:43, Mike Volling <_mvolling@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:mvolling@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) > wrote:
This happens in Chicago as well. What annoys me there is exactly what
happened to you: they make you leave the building, walk across the street,
lock your weapon up there, and come back to their side of the street.
Nothing like walking across the street in downtown Chicago in full uniform
with
an empty holster to make you feel vulnerable.
I've never understood why they do that. I wouldn't dream of telling a
Federal Officer he had to disarm before walking into our station. I could
only imagine the reaction if we did, yet they have no hesitation about making
you do it.
____________________________________
From: C D Rowsell <_cd2u@xxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:cd2u@xxxxxxxxxxx) >
To: _badges@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:badges@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Sent: Tue, August 30, 2011 1:43:32 PM
Subject: Badges - Re: A Question For Everyone
I attended an event last Friday with the U. S. Dept. of Labor, put on in
the San Francisco Federal building. Going in at 0830, I ID’d myself and
told the security I was carrying a weapon. The early morning crew let me right
through without a problem. A group of us then left at noon for a tour of
an offsite facility. When we returned, we had to repeat the screening
process. This time the day time crew was on duty and the supervisor for the
building (Federal Protection Services) happened to be standing in the lobby
next
to the Dept. of Labor reception desk. The uniform FPS guys took my ID and
told her that I had been in the earlier meeting and was returning from the
tour. She basically said no way I was getting back in with my weapon. The
uniform guys then suggested I go check my weapon at the California Superior
Court located across the street and one of FPS guys walked over with me to
do it. He was telling me that since the shootings at Federal buildings (Las
Vegas particularly), they don’t even let the retired Feds (FBI etc.) come
into the building armed. (The private security contractors working the
early morning shift apparently didn’t know this little piece of information.)
With all the discussion that occurred my second time in, this either hadn’t
occurred since the policy was instituted (for the security contractors) or
the policy hadn’t been communicated to them properly when it was
instituted. I do have to commend the FPS guys who really did accommodate me.
They
could have simply told me I wasn’t getting back in with a weapon and not
bothered with me any further.
So all you Feds on the list, it appears the fun goes away once you retire.
CD
From: _badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
[mailto:badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of _SWColony@xxxxxxxx
(mailto:SWColony@xxxxxxx)
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 3:23 AM
To: badges@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Badges - Re: A Question For Everyone
While I am not a fan of TSA, I do think flight security needed to be taken
out of the hands of private contractors. I also think the expansion of
the FAM program was good. DHS has some problems, but I don't think DHS is
the "boogeyman" some folks make it out to be. All in all, I don't know that
I feel "safer", but I do feel more "aware" and that makes me feel more
secure.
As Mike pointed out, I have the luxury, as a fed, of carrying my firearm
everywhere I go, to include on commercial aircraft. I'm sure that
contributes to my feeling of well being. However, a lot of local and state
cops
take advantage of LEOSA, which did not exist pre-09/11. Even though it
excludes a few places, it does allow cops to carry nationwide. I think that
helps. I also think a lot more private citizens are now legally armed, and
that also contributes to my feelings of a safer environment.
I definitely don't fear the government. I'm leery of it, and very aware
of it, as I think all citizens should be, but I don't fear it.
Russell
In a message dated 8/29/2011 8:11:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
_CarlGlas@xxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:CarlGlas@xxxxxxxxxxx) writes:
As we approach the tenth anniversary of the tragedy of September 11,
2001, I have a question to ask of each
of you.
With the creation of Homeland Security, the Transportation Security
Administration, and all the other federal agencies that were created
with the intentions of making us all feel safer, do you?
Do you feel any safer or secure today than you did on September 10, 2001?
The Badges Law Enforcement Discussion Group - Est. 1997
Other related posts:
