Badges - Re: A Question For Everyone
- From: "William Taylor" <usms@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <badges@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 20:52:02 -0400
Russ you guys have really flashy Tahoes. We have one inspector we see from
time to time who seems to spend all of his time checking up on the contract
guards, testing their use of the x-ray etc. I have never heard him talk about
any kind of enforcement work other than one time he was talking about working
some kind of special assignment with FAM at bus stations. I can tell you from
my time as a JSI, I would rather get kicked in the crotch than do that job
again. Contract violations are a pain in the rear and I don’t miss that at
all.
I have to surrender my weapon when I go into the local common pleas court. I
don’t mind. I do have issue with people we don’t know carrying firearms in our
building. I don’t want them in the court rooms and me not know who they are.
When I used to have to ride the pine I wanted me and my partners to have the
weapons and everyone else unarmed. I had enough to do keeping track of the
turds on trial and if something bad happened seeing someone in the courtroom
whip out a weapon who I didn’t know would cause me some problems.
B
From: badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of SWColony@xxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 8:39 PM
To: badges@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Badges - Re: A Question For Everyone
Well, as an FPS LEO myself, I can tell you that the FPS Inspectors in marked
units and wearing blue BDUs are fully trained federal law enforcement officers
(graduates of either FLETC UPTP or FLETC CITP and FPS follow-on) with the same
law enforcement authority as any other federal LEO. Only certain FPS LEOs
administer the contracts, and they are designated as Contracting Officer
Technical Representatives (COTRs). Just as USMS Judicial Security Inspectors
are COTRs for the USMS CSOs, a designated FPS Inspector is usually the COTR.
However, in some areas, non-sworn FPS Physical Security Specialists have been
designated as COTRs to relieve the law enforcement officers of that additional
duty. Being a COTR is not fun. I'm pretty sure most JSIs would agree. LOL!
It has been my experience that the contract guards (Protective Security
Officers, as they are now called) are a mixed bag. Some are terrible, some are
great, and most are somewhere in between. In my area, many are retired police
officers and quite a few are still active local or county LEOs who are doing
the contract security as a side-job.
Personally, I have no issue with cops being armed in federal facilities. That
being said, I agree with Bill that the "their house, their rules" law has to
apply. When I go into the new FBI building, I can keep my gun, but I have to
leave my Blackberry at the guard booth. Seems rather silly to me, but their
house, their rules.
In twenty years of law enforcement, I have never been asked to surrender my
weapon at a local PD, sheriff's office, or state law enforcement office. I
would find it very strange to ever see that. Obviously when going into a
custody facility, you lock your weapon up, just like everyone else. When I
visited the White House, I was "asked" to secure my weapon with the USSS before
going in. Obviously, I complied with a smile.
Russell
In a message dated 8/30/2011 7:02:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
usms@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
There are a couple different kinds of FPS. The FPS you see in uniforms
guarding buildings are I think just about all contract guards. They aren’t
government employees. They are hired by a private contractor and may or may
not have law enforcement background. Around this area of Ohio they finally
went to automatics. They do not carry their weapons to and from the job site.
There are also FPS agents who from what I see appear to administer the
contracts and show up in really flashy marked patrol vehicles and wear blue
bdu’s. Not sure what enforcement authority they have. The court security
officers running the access points into the federal courts are also contract
employees. They are not government employees and they only have authority while
they are at work on the job. They are by and large completely retired police
officers. They also cannot carry their issued weapons out of the office, so
they carry their own weapons to and from. They get it and are good guys.
The take your gun off at the door policy is one I agree with for non uniform
officers or agents. In our building, if you don’t have an office in the
building, you lock your gun up at the front check point. I don’t care if the
guy has 25 years and is a 300 shooter, if he’s not in our building and may or
may not be known to the people responsible for securing the interior and
exterior, they aren’t carrying a gun. It’s a safety issue for our guys and
for the guys we make lock their weapons up. I get into a lot of police and
sheriff’s offices and very few make me remove my weapon, but when they do, I
just do it. It’s their house they can run it the way they see fit.
From: badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Christopher Karney
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:29 PM
To: badges@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Badges - Re: A Question For Everyone
I have found the FPS guards up there with the TSA "officers" at O'Hare and
Midway Airports in terms of incompetence. The US Marshalls are a different
breed though.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 30, 2011, at 16:43, Mike Volling <mvolling@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
This happens in Chicago as well. What annoys me there is exactly what happened
to you: they make you leave the building, walk across the street, lock your
weapon up there, and come back to their side of the street. Nothing like
walking across the street in downtown Chicago in full uniform with an empty
holster to make you feel vulnerable.
I've never understood why they do that. I wouldn't dream of telling a Federal
Officer he had to disarm before walking into our station. I could only imagine
the reaction if we did, yet they have no hesitation about making you do it.
_____
From: C D Rowsell <cd2u@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: badges@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tue, August 30, 2011 1:43:32 PM
Subject: Badges - Re: A Question For Everyone
I attended an event last Friday with the U. S. Dept. of Labor, put on in the
San Francisco Federal building. Going in at 0830, I ID’d myself and told the
security I was carrying a weapon. The early morning crew let me right through
without a problem. A group of us then left at noon for a tour of an offsite
facility. When we returned, we had to repeat the screening process. This time
the day time crew was on duty and the supervisor for the building (Federal
Protection Services) happened to be standing in the lobby next to the Dept. of
Labor reception desk. The uniform FPS guys took my ID and told her that I had
been in the earlier meeting and was returning from the tour. She basically said
no way I was getting back in with my weapon. The uniform guys then suggested I
go check my weapon at the California Superior Court located across the street
and one of FPS guys walked over with me to do it. He was telling me that since
the shootings at Federal buildings (Las Vegas particularly), they don’t even
let the retired Feds (FBI etc.) come into the building armed. (The private
security contractors working the early morning shift apparently didn’t know
this little piece of information.) With all the discussion that occurred my
second time in, this either hadn’t occurred since the policy was instituted
(for the security contractors) or the policy hadn’t been communicated to them
properly when it was instituted. I do have to commend the FPS guys who really
did accommodate me. They could have simply told me I wasn’t getting back in
with a weapon and not bothered with me any further.
So all you Feds on the list, it appears the fun goes away once you retire.
CD
From: badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:badges-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of SWColony@xxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 3:23 AM
To: badges@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Badges - Re: A Question For Everyone
While I am not a fan of TSA, I do think flight security needed to be taken out
of the hands of private contractors. I also think the expansion of the FAM
program was good. DHS has some problems, but I don't think DHS is the
"boogeyman" some folks make it out to be. All in all, I don't know that I feel
"safer", but I do feel more "aware" and that makes me feel more secure.
As Mike pointed out, I have the luxury, as a fed, of carrying my firearm
everywhere I go, to include on commercial aircraft. I'm sure that contributes
to my feeling of well being. However, a lot of local and state cops take
advantage of LEOSA, which did not exist pre-09/11. Even though it excludes a
few places, it does allow cops to carry nationwide. I think that helps. I
also think a lot more private citizens are now legally armed, and that also
contributes to my feelings of a safer environment.
I definitely don't fear the government. I'm leery of it, and very aware of it,
as I think all citizens should be, but I don't fear it.
Russell
In a message dated 8/29/2011 8:11:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
CarlGlas@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
As we approach the tenth anniversary of the tragedy of September 11,
2001, I have a question to ask of each
of you.
With the creation of Homeland Security, the Transportation Security
Administration, and all the other federal agencies that were created
with the intentions of making us all feel safer, do you?
Do you feel any safer or secure today than you did on September 10, 2001?
The Badges Law Enforcement Discussion Group - Est. 1997
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