Hi Jim This was my point. Why do we need to show capitals in Braille? If the answer is, because they are in print, then Why bother with grade 2 Braille as the grade 2 abbreviations are not in print! Derek -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim McAuslan Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 10:03 PM To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: BRAILLE ON PACKAGING Hi Steve, I've just received a 16 volume book in grade II Braille. I shudder to think what that would be in uncontracted Braille. My posty would probably go on strike and never talk to me again, grin. Jim Mc On 10/06/2014 21:45, Steve Nutt wrote: > Hi Ian, > > Not to mention the word Knowledge. Many blind people couldn't spell it. > And what idiot had the idea that there was an X in the word It. > > Personally, I just wish grade 2 would go away and die. I can read > uncontracted Braille as fast as anyone I know who reads Grade 2. > > All the best > > Steve > > -- > Computer Room Services > 77 Exeter Close > Stevenage > Hertfordshire > SG1 4PW > Tel: +44(0)1438-742286 > Mob: +44(0)7956-334938 > Fax: +44(0)1438-759589 > Email: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk > > -----Original Message----- > From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of > Iain Lackie > Sent: 09 June 2014 16:41 > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [access-uk] Re: BRAILLE ON PACKAGING > > I think it is very important that we as Braille users are aware of how such > print conventions are used. Using capitalisation in Braille as a default > would definitely make this much easier. As to grade 2 Braille, there is a > strong argument for its demise. The contractions are arbitrary to say the > least and the different functionality of dot patterns must be a nightmare > for learners and those writing translation programs. I should say that I > would miss grade 2 Braille as a reader, but I think its demise might make > Braille life a lot easier for many. And the number of times I have seen > character misspelled because of its contraction is not insignificant. I > suspect words such as receive may be erroneously spelled because of the > arbitrary nature of contracted Braille. > > Iain > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 9 Jun 2014, at 03:56 pm, "Derek Hornby" <derek.hornby_uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > > Steve says > > "If we don't have caps, we have illiterate blind people who don't > know how to write in the sighted world." > > If that was the case, are those that left school in the > 1960s and 70s on average illiterate! > > Also, lets not forget grade 2 Braille. > Should grade 2 Braille be allowed, given fact > The grade 2 Braille abbreviations are not in print. > > So most users of grade 2 are unable to spell correctly!!!! > > > Derek > > -----Original Message----- > From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of > Steve Nutt > Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 11:18 AM > To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [access-uk] Re: BRAILLE ON PACKAGING > > Hi, > > I disagree. > > If we don't have caps, we have illiterate blind people who don't know how to > write in the sighterd world. They write everything in lower case. And > don't get me started on spelling because of contracted Braille. > > All the best > > Steve > > -- > Computer Room Services > 77 Exeter Close > Stevenage > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ** and in the Subject line type > ** unsubscribe > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > ** immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > ** or send a message, to > ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > > > > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: > ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > ** and in the Subject line type > ** unsubscribe > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the > ** immediately-following link:- > ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] > ** or send a message, to > ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq