I think Witch makes a good point, although visibility from the P.38 cockpit is
not the best. What I have been doing most is being a P.38 wingman lately and
that means I always try and stick with my leader, even for the bomb run, I tuck
in close and drop my bombs whilst keeping my leader in view. I am then on max
settings to catch up/stay with him to try and maintain mutual support (that is
why I have been using max settings; I am not suggesting that the lead always
uses them, but I think it is important that a wingman is not afraid to use them
at the right time). When I can and it is appropriate, I also like to land with
my leader and taxi to a stop next to him. From my perspective, there are some
things that I think we could do better to enhance our teamwork and
effectiveness as a group and make the most from operating at squad strength
numbers:
1. Guard against being too much the individual and focus on the team; hard for
pilots I know. For example, let the leader lead and if one is a wingman or 2IC
then fly 'with' the lead or CO and focus on ones wingman or 2IC duties. (This
does not mean we say nothing if we can see that things are going wrong).
Flying with 8 or so of us together is very hard, much harder than flying as a
twosome, where it is easy to switch around and swap responsibilities on the go
and act as one.
2. Be more vocal on coms about the important stuff, like keeping ourselves in
formation, and less vocal about any niff-naff and trivia. If the lead can't
see the wingman (and the lead should be looking) then immediately say so and if
the wingman can't see or keep up with the lead then immediately say so; same
goes for mission 2IC and CO. Too often, we have a good formation only half way
through the sortie but a poor formation at the beginning and an even worse
formation, perhaps no formation at all, just as we arrive to attack the target.
3. Bond better. Lead and wingman must constantly strive to strike up and
maintain a mission bond and the 2IC must maintain a mission bond with the CO
who is leading, that is clear from the training sessions that some of us took
with the Blaggard's. Lee and Colin have a strong bond, but we have to try and
bond as a different twosome on any given squad night as well as bond as a
larger group for the mission; this can be hard to maintain and is, I think, one
of the reasons that we don't see so many squads operating together in MP over
long periods. Anyone else aware of another squad like ours, still flying
together in MP over many years and many different flight sim titles? On that
score I think we have done well above average and can congratulate ourselves,
but I think we need to work at bonding better for individual sorties.
4. Build on and use our strengths. We have a lot going for us. Our
continuous conversations via our group e-mail are key, as are our debriefing
sessions; keep talking :)
I hope to be on-line with you all later this evening.
Happy landings,
Talisman
On Sunday, 17 November 2019, 10:57:13 GMT, klem56
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well, IMHExperience, getting together ASAP means faffing about in the target
area looking for each other :(
Egressing to a specific RV from a relatively small target area means we should
'funnel in' on each other. Just my 2p though.
of course if we could actually see what we were doing........
klem
http://56punjabvirtualsquad.boards.net/
On 17/11/2019 09:57, Lee Fisher (Redacted sender l.fisher for DMARC) wrote:
If there are 6 of you in Lightning’s and you’ve dropped your bombs aren’t you
going to be MUCH better off getting together ASAP, you will have great mutual
support and should easily take on the odd enemy that happens to be around.
Witch
Sent from my iPhone
On 17 Nov 2019, at 09:51, klem56 (Redacted sender "klem56" for DMARC)
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On egress I would just add that if you pick an egress heading to very
recognisable land feature the chances are much higher that you will converge
and meet up. Simply saying 'egress heading 280' won't help much if you are
several miles apart after the manoeuvring to avoid flak and fighters, you will
simply remain apart or spend valuable time turning this way and that to find
each-other. A general egress heading relative to the target to a distant
specific RV landmark would be much better, e.g. 'egress heading 280 to RV lake
in 1234.3'. We can make our own adjustments to our actual heading depending on
where we are in relation to the target when we get free of it. Also we should
think carefully before going back to 'help' a lagger, they are likely to be
dead before you get there.... and then it's your turn. The simple fact is that
on egress we are likely to be running away for a very good reason. :)
klem
http://56punjabvirtualsquad.boards.net/
On 16/11/2019 12:33, 56RAF_phoenix wrote:
I was saying to Cina last night, that in general we need to spend more time
planning our egress. We think quite a lot about how to get to a target while
minimising the chance of interception. But the egress is often "head for home
as fast as we can". Recon pics as from Stickz really help because we can
allocate targets, maximise the impact (dropping along the axis of the target)
and minimise the turn after drop thereby avoiding speed loss.
Egress in an unexpected direction is a key tool to avoid CAPs. If we're
detected the tactics should depend on the aircraft. Cina and I had success
belting out at full rpm full, throttle in Tempests - but they're no longer
allowed bombs on Combat Box. Often on egress we're a bit separated, so I'm not
convinced we can offer mutual support without any rear gunner in a P-38, etgo
climbing has got to be our best friend, as long as there's a bit of separation
generated by our egress direction. Otherwise you're reduced to our old Blenheim
tactic of sacrificing one of our number.
56RAF_phoenix
On 15/11/2019 15:17, tim foster (Redacted sender silverwings.stickz for
DMARC) wrote:
I must admit, my idea of perfect egress is that I egress safely rather than get
shot down :) But yes we were able to use terrain there, and he obviously had
better vision than me cos I was having difficulty seeing you. But it was my
own fault, didnt realise till we must have been nearly a minute off target that
I still had 2 bombs slung. So little target left, nought to drop on and forgot
to ditch em immediately (not gonna admit I cannot count to six). Normally I
would have caught you and been in combat spread before he caught us. Usually I
have come off target quicker than you and it was only cos I wasnt that made me
start to question why. But the P38 can climb vertically pretty well, you just
must have good energy and distance to be out of shooting range when you do it.
Hammerheads in a P38 can be pretty effective, but do need distance and energy.
Supposedly a gently climbing turn also works well but offline for me it dont so
take it wiv a pinch of salt. Perhaps it needs to be more a steep climb and
gentle turn.
TTFN Stickz
On 15/11/2019 14:52, Marcin Wochnik wrote:
Hi,
Speaking of egressing from the target on low level me and Stickz bombed south
western airfield on Ruhr Pocket map. We were attacking from west egressing east
on the deck. What I observed atacking like this (west to east) was that the
terrain east of the airfield goes lower that the airfield which allows perfect
egress from target area. No disturbance from flak while going away from the
target. Still we were unlucky to attract enemy fighter capping the target and
he bounced us on the way. I saw him to late to warn Stickz. He shot him down
and moved on me but he overshot (I went up and then rolled down). He extended
up and dove on me again. I went full boost and RPM, evaded his pass and turned
after him. He must have been quite astonished when he looked back behind in his
steep climb. I could easily keep up with his climb. If I knew I could climb
like this in P38 he would have been dead. But I aimed badly since I assumed I
would stall in a moment. Actually he stalled earlier than me and was making
jerky maneuvers to throw off my aim. When he gained control of the aircraft and
dove down to the deck he could extend from me. I was amazed that P38 can climb
like I did yesterday. I never practised combat in that plane but I learned my
lesson. Cheers, Cina
pt., 15 lis 2019 o 15:23 Michael Colby <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
napisał(a):
Interesting about the flak, because if I remember correctly, the 3 of us in
P38's that attacked the target diving close together in a way that we arrived
together very quickly and left together quickly, meant that we got away and
returned home. Perhaps arriving and leaving together very quickly in one pass
with multiple aircraft to split the anti-aircraft gunfire is a different ball
game than arriving as a single aircraft with no support and drawing all the
anti-aircraft gunfire like the proverbial magnet.
I think there is a lot to be said for a very quick multiple aircraft single
pass on a target, though it does take good teamwork and co-ordination. If
ant-aircraft gunfire is heavy then stay low and egress (quick as possible out
of range of guns and use terrain to mask egress), but if anti-aircraft gunfire
is not heavy then there is more chance to zoom climb, if that is viewed as
desirable. Also, providing we are close together in a low level attack run
after a dive, perhaps a shorter bomb timer fuse would help us get away with
less risk, because some of our bomb-blast may take out anti-aircraft gunfire
that might otherwise shoot us down (reduce 15 second bomb fuse delay to 10/5
seconds?) Of course, the serious anti-aircraft guns will be positioned some
distance away from our actual target, but sometimes vehicles and the like that
are actually part of our target can turn their fire at us too. Lead aircraft
could take 10 second bomb delay and the wingman could take a 5 second bomb
delay.
Yes, strafing is risky and I must say that I am not keen on it when flying a
fighter and Stickz makes a good point regarding visibility for the strafing
run due to bombing.
Attacking ground targets is a high risk business, so we have to expect
casualties. But with good planning, teamwork and co-ordinated flying together
we can at least mitigate some of the risk. That is why I don't mind taking the
time beforehand to plan and brief our missions to make the most of our numbers
which can be up to 6 or 8 of us on a good squad night. It would be great if
some of our rested members could return and fly with us again.
Happy landings,
Talisman
On Friday, 15 November 2019, 11:14:06 GMT, tim foster
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I attacked it last night, got engine damaged again by flak with a single
pass. Not badly, but its unusual that I get hit at all with a fast single
attack. Smaller tempest thats not suffering compression lock might get out
unscathed. And its not a good target to strafe - and it leaves you vulnerable.
Wait for dust to clear, get firing lane, all that time gone since alerts gone
off with a field 20km away. No one watching you. To strafe you need top cover,
the P38s have left as planned. Much as I want to win a map, I'd rather we left
a strafeable truck and all got home than lose one plane and get the truck.
TTFN Stickz
On 15/11/2019 06:09, klem56 (Redacted sender klem56 for DMARC) wrote:
It would have been nice to find something to shoot at but I'd prefer to avoid
a suicidal strafing run unless it meant actually closing the target. Not much
point in killing a few trucks if there is more to kill that needed another
bombing run.
klem
http://56punjabvirtualsquad.boards.net/
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Windows 10 Home 64bit On 14/11/2019 15:09, tim foster (Redacted sender
silverwings.stickz for DMARC) wrote:
Boots right though, the flak there is pretty hard, whilst I took a slow pass
to make those screenshots and then came into attack I got hit pretty hard
(course its a big plane). The strafeable targets are mainly beside the road,
and you can see 3 flak covering it(at least). Once we wake it up, they would
take the full ferocity in the face. With our 15sec bomb delay they gonna be
coming in late to give smoke time to settle to actually see viable targets with
us not pulling the flak. Means they are also way behind. From cina/klem point
of view of course it might have been worth it instead of 2 hours following us
around never seeing an enemy nor firing a gun.
TTFN Stickz
On 14/11/2019 13:26, Michael Colby (Redacted sender michael.colby82 for
DMARC) wrote:
Nice one Stickz. Thanks!
Our two P.38 missions last night were very enjoyable :)
It was good to have the escorts, as visibility from the P.38 is not so good
for searching for bandits on-route.
Looks to me like our escorts, or a portion of our escort, could be given the
option of a single run cannon strafe next time we attack that target.
Thanks again Stickz.
Happy landings,
Talisman
On Thursday, 14 November 2019, 13:08:07 GMT, tim foster
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
yeah I was trying to put ackbar and the 4077th reference in but couldnt
remember his name nor the mash number at that time of the morning so it
got rather lost.
It was meant to be red H is gen ackbars 4077th hospital, then the trap
pun in the second picture line
On 14/11/2019 07:32, Lee Fisher (Redacted sender l.fisher for DMARC) wrote:
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Nov 2019, at 07:18, 56RAF_phoenix <phoenix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I dropped two bombs on the away-from-the-road netted targets, four on the
hospital. That explains why I got only one building.
Good recon, Stickz.
56RAF_phoenix
On 14/11/2019 00:54, tim foster (Redacted sender silverwings.stickz for
DMARC) wrote:
for those of you who only attack a target once a week so probably cast
the same one once a year
Last nights rally point target, rally tagt shows your view more or less
from the route boot brought you in. The red H is a hospital. Red squares
are target areas.
Rally_close shows a close up also from same route path, red areas are
targets. And I would guess the 2 purple areas are also targets - although
I guess the hospital maybe a trap
TTFN
Stickz
