I must admit, my idea of perfect egress is that I egress safely rather
than get shot down :)
But yes we were able to use terrain there, and he obviously had better
vision than me cos I was having difficulty seeing you. But it was my own
fault, didnt realise till we must have been nearly a minute off target
that I still had 2 bombs slung. So little target left, nought to drop on
and forgot to ditch em immediately (not gonna admit I cannot count to
six). Normally I would have caught you and been in combat spread before
he caught us. Usually I have come off target quicker than you and it was
only cos I wasnt that made me start to question why.
But the P38 can climb vertically pretty well, you just must have good
energy and distance to be out of shooting range when you do it.
Hammerheads in a P38 can be pretty effective, but do need distance and
energy. Supposedly a gently climbing turn also works well but offline
for me it dont so take it wiv a pinch of salt. Perhaps it needs to be
more a steep climb and gentle turn.
TTFN
Stickz
On 15/11/2019 14:52, Marcin Wochnik wrote:
Hi,
Speaking of egressing from the target on low level me and Stickz bombed south western airfield on Ruhr Pocket map. We were attacking from west egressing east on the deck. What I observed atacking like this (west to east) was that the terrain east of the airfield goes lower that the airfield which allows perfect egress from target area. No disturbance from flak while going away from the target. Still we were unlucky to attract enemy fighter capping the target and he bounced us on the way. I saw him to late to warn Stickz. He shot him down and moved on me but he overshot (I went up and then rolled down). He extended up and dove on me again. I went full boost and RPM, evaded his pass and turned after him. He must have been quite astonished when he looked back behind in his steep climb. I could easily keep up with his climb. If I knew I could climb like this in P38 he would have been dead. But I aimed badly since I assumed I would stall in a moment. Actually he stalled earlier than me and was making jerky maneuvers to throw off my aim. When he gained control of the aircraft and dove down to the deck he could extend from me.
I was amazed that P38 can climb like I did yesterday. I never practised combat in that plane but I learned my lesson.
Cheers,
Cina
pt., 15 lis 2019 o 15:23 Michael Colby <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> napisał(a):
Interesting about the flak, because if I remember correctly, the 3
of us in P38's that attacked the target diving close together in a
way that we arrived together very quickly and left together
quickly, meant that we got away and returned home. Perhaps
arriving and leaving together very quickly in one pass with
multiple aircraft to split the anti-aircraft gunfire is a
different ball game than arriving as a single aircraft with no
support and drawing all the anti-aircraft gunfire like the
proverbial magnet.
I think there is a lot to be said for a very quick multiple
aircraft single pass on a target, though it does take good
teamwork and co-ordination. If ant-aircraft gunfire is heavy then
stay low and egress (quick as possible out of range of guns and
use terrain to mask egress), but if anti-aircraft gunfire is not
heavy then there is more chance to zoom climb, if that is viewed
as desirable. Also, providing we are close together in a low
level attack run after a dive, perhaps a shorter bomb timer fuse
would help us get away with less risk, because some of our
bomb-blast may take out anti-aircraft gunfire that might otherwise
shoot us down (reduce 15 second bomb fuse delay to 10/5 seconds?)
Of course, the serious anti-aircraft guns will be positioned some
distance away from our actual target, but sometimes vehicles and
the like that are actually part of our target can turn their fire
at us too. Lead aircraft could take 10 second bomb delay and the
wingman could take a 5 second bomb delay.
Yes, strafing is risky and I must say that I am not keen on it
when flying a fighter and Stickz makes a good point regarding
visibility for the strafing run due to bombing.
Attacking ground targets is a high risk business, so we have to
expect casualties. But with good planning, teamwork and
co-ordinated flying together we can at least mitigate some of the
risk. That is why I don't mind taking the time beforehand to plan
and brief our missions to make the most of our numbers which can
be up to 6 or 8 of us on a good squad night. It would be great if
some of our rested members could return and fly with us again.
Happy landings,
Talisman
On Friday, 15 November 2019, 11:14:06 GMT, tim foster
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
I attacked it last night, got engine damaged again by flak with a
single pass. Not badly, but its unusual that I get hit at all with
a fast single attack. Smaller tempest thats not suffering
compression lock might get out unscathed. And its not a good
target to strafe - and it leaves you vulnerable. Wait for dust to
clear, get firing lane, all that time gone since alerts gone off
with a field 20km away. No one watching you. To strafe you need
top cover, the P38s have left as planned. Much as I want to win a
map, I'd rather we left a strafeable truck and all got home than
lose one plane and get the truck.
TTFN
Stickz
On 15/11/2019 06:09, klem56 (Redacted sender klem56 for DMARC) wrote:
It would have been nice to find something to shoot at but I'd
prefer to avoid a suicidal strafing run unless it meant actually
closing the target. Not much point in killing a few trucks if
there is more to kill that needed another bombing run.
klem
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On 14/11/2019 15:09, tim foster (Redacted sender
silverwings.stickz for DMARC) wrote:
Boots right though, the flak there is pretty hard, whilst I took
a slow pass to make those screenshots and then came into attack
I got hit pretty hard (course its a big plane). The strafeable
targets are mainly beside the road, and you can see 3 flak
covering it(at least). Once we wake it up, they would take the
full ferocity in the face. With our 15sec bomb delay they gonna
be coming in late to give smoke time to settle to actually see
viable targets with us not pulling the flak. Means they are also
way behind. From cina/klem point of view of course it might have
been worth it instead of 2 hours following us around never
seeing an enemy nor firing a gun.
TTFN
Stickz
On 14/11/2019 13:26, Michael Colby (Redacted sender
michael.colby82 for DMARC) wrote:
Nice one Stickz. Thanks!
Our two P.38 missions last night were very enjoyable :)
It was good to have the escorts, as visibility from the P.38 is
not so good for searching for bandits on-route.
Looks to me like our escorts, or a portion of our escort, could
be given the option of a single run cannon strafe next time we
attack that target.
Thanks again Stickz.
Happy landings,
Talisman
On Thursday, 14 November 2019, 13:08:07 GMT, tim foster
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
yeah I was trying to put ackbar and the 4077th reference in but
couldnt
remember his name nor the mash number at that time of the
morning so it
got rather lost.
It was meant to be red H is gen ackbars 4077th hospital, then
the trap
pun in the second picture line
On 14/11/2019 07:32, Lee Fisher (Redacted sender l.fisher for
DMARC) wrote:
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 14 Nov 2019, at 07:18, 56RAF_phoenix
<phoenix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:phoenix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> I dropped two bombs on the away-from-the-road netted
targets, four on the hospital. That explains why I got only one
building.
>> Good recon, Stickz.
>>
>> 56RAF_phoenix
>>
>>> On 14/11/2019 00:54, tim foster (Redacted sender
silverwings.stickz for DMARC) wrote:
>>> for those of you who only attack a target once a week so
probably cast the same one once a year
>>>
>>> Last nights rally point target, rally tagt shows your view
more or less from the route boot brought you in. The red H is a
hospital. Red squares are target areas.
>>>
>>> Rally_close shows a close up also from same route path, red
areas are targets. And I would guess the 2 purple areas are
also targets - although I guess the hospital maybe a trap
>>>
>>>
>>> TTFN
>>>
>>> Stickz
>>>
>>
-- if you dont live life on the edge you are taking up too much space
-- if you dont live life on the edge you are taking up too much space
-- if you dont live life on the edge you are taking up too much space
