Usually my plan A.B and C is get in and out before it wakes up. D is
usually the get to 20k and dive down at la phoenix description, but
thats only viable for certain targets (having said that the area of
square workshops there may well lend itself to it because the houses
pretty much shield them from a fast dive from north). Certainly numbers
help (but not for the guy they lock to), but that road line is pretty
much flying down a crossfire once alert. And I probably gave them time
cos I dived down from 17k and had to roll round 90deg to get aligned
with road. Limits your speed to below 400mph and once everything starts
to rattle near that speed all manoeuvre is gone. So it even a bit
limiting on egress. I didnt take anything large - just engine damage but
that and fuel leaks appear to be P38 nemesis. However a P47 probably
wouldnt survive it at all.
Short bomb timers dont really help unless you are intentiomally going
for the flak - any destruction is usually co-incidental (obviously all
helps).
In and out as fast as possible is best bet, but if we are close together
(with short delays) that make weaving problematic (no mid-airs). But I
would never zoom up in target area
particularly in a P38, gives a slow target with little change in aspect
and add in P38 is big target and putting no distance between you and
flak. Gives ai best chance of a hit. Must admit I am prone to give
myself bad habits for that as practise I often forget to record so zoom
up and out to check my accuracy. Whereas (assuming I am thinking
straight) online I never look back nor climb.
Trying to get back alone last night was the hardest. In fact I didnt cos
time ran out, but I had only very basic idea where I hoped I was. Being
alone at zero feet was not gonna get map out.
TTFN
Stickz
On 15/11/2019 14:14, Michael Colby (Redacted sender michael.colby82 for
DMARC) wrote:
Interesting about the flak, because if I remember correctly, the 3 of us in P38's that attacked the target diving close together in a way that we arrived together very quickly and left together quickly, meant that we got away and returned home. Perhaps arriving and leaving together very quickly in one pass with multiple aircraft to split the anti-aircraft gunfire is a different ball game than arriving as a single aircraft with no support and drawing all the anti-aircraft gunfire like the proverbial magnet.
I think there is a lot to be said for a very quick multiple aircraft single pass on a target, though it does take good teamwork and co-ordination. If ant-aircraft gunfire is heavy then stay low and egress (quick as possible out of range of guns and use terrain to mask egress), but if anti-aircraft gunfire is not heavy then there is more chance to zoom climb, if that is viewed as desirable. Also, providing we are close together in a low level attack run after a dive, perhaps a shorter bomb timer fuse would help us get away with less risk, because some of our bomb-blast may take out anti-aircraft gunfire that might otherwise shoot us down (reduce 15 second bomb fuse delay to 10/5 seconds?) Of course, the serious anti-aircraft guns will be positioned some distance away from our actual target, but sometimes vehicles and the like that are actually part of our target can turn their fire at us too. Lead aircraft could take 10 second bomb delay and the wingman could take a 5 second bomb delay.
Yes, strafing is risky and I must say that I am not keen on it when flying a fighter and Stickz makes a good point regarding visibility for the strafing run due to bombing.
Attacking ground targets is a high risk business, so we have to expect casualties. But with good planning, teamwork and co-ordinated flying together we can at least mitigate some of the risk. That is why I don't mind taking the time beforehand to plan and brief our missions to make the most of our numbers which can be up to 6 or 8 of us on a good squad night. It would be great if some of our rested members could return and fly with us again.
Happy landings,
Talisman
On Friday, 15 November 2019, 11:14:06 GMT, tim foster <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I attacked it last night, got engine damaged again by flak with a single pass. Not badly, but its unusual that I get hit at all with a fast single attack. Smaller tempest thats not suffering compression lock might get out unscathed. And its not a good target to strafe - and it leaves you vulnerable. Wait for dust to clear, get firing lane, all that time gone since alerts gone off with a field 20km away. No one watching you. To strafe you need top cover, the P38s have left as planned. Much as I want to win a map, I'd rather we left a strafeable truck and all got home than lose one plane and get the truck.
TTFN
Stickz
On 15/11/2019 06:09, klem56 (Redacted sender klem56 for DMARC) wrote:
It would have been nice to find something to shoot at but I'd prefer to avoid a suicidal strafing run unless it meant actually closing the target. Not much point in killing a few trucks if there is more to kill that needed another bombing run.
klem
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On 14/11/2019 15:09, tim foster (Redacted sender silverwings.stickz for DMARC) wrote:Boots right though, the flak there is pretty hard, whilst I took a slow pass to make those screenshots and then came into attack I got hit pretty hard (course its a big plane). The strafeable targets are mainly beside the road, and you can see 3 flak covering it(at least). Once we wake it up, they would take the full ferocity in the face. With our 15sec bomb delay they gonna be coming in late to give smoke time to settle to actually see viable targets with us not pulling the flak. Means they are also way behind. From cina/klem point of view of course it might have been worth it instead of 2 hours following us around never seeing an enemy nor firing a gun.
TTFN
Stickz
On 14/11/2019 13:26, Michael Colby (Redacted sender michael.colby82 for DMARC) wrote:Nice one Stickz. Thanks!
Our two P.38 missions last night were very enjoyable :)
It was good to have the escorts, as visibility from the P.38 is not so good for searching for bandits on-route.
Looks to me like our escorts, or a portion of our escort, could be given the option of a single run cannon strafe next time we attack that target.
Thanks again Stickz.
Happy landings,
Talisman
On Thursday, 14 November 2019, 13:08:07 GMT, tim foster <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
yeah I was trying to put ackbar and the 4077th reference in but couldnt
remember his name nor the mash number at that time of the morning so it
got rather lost.
It was meant to be red H is gen ackbars 4077th hospital, then the trap
pun in the second picture line
On 14/11/2019 07:32, Lee Fisher (Redacted sender l.fisher for DMARC) wrote:
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 14 Nov 2019, at 07:18, 56RAF_phoenix <phoenix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:phoenix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> I dropped two bombs on the away-from-the-road netted targets, four on the hospital. That explains why I got only one building.
>> Good recon, Stickz.
>>
>> 56RAF_phoenix
>>
>>> On 14/11/2019 00:54, tim foster (Redacted sender silverwings.stickz for DMARC) wrote:
>>> for those of you who only attack a target once a week so probably cast the same one once a year
>>>
>>> Last nights rally point target, rally tagt shows your view more or less from the route boot brought you in. The red H is a hospital. Red squares are target areas.
>>>
>>> Rally_close shows a close up also from same route path, red areas are targets. And I would guess the 2 purple areas are also targets - although I guess the hospital maybe a trap
>>>
>>>
>>> TTFN
>>>
>>> Stickz
>>>
>>
--
if you dont live life on the edge you are taking up too much space
--
if you dont live life on the edge you are taking up too much space
--
if you dont live life on the edge you are taking up too much space