If there are 6 of you in Lightning’s and you’ve dropped your bombs aren’t you
going to be MUCH better off getting together ASAP, you will have great mutual
support and should easily take on the odd enemy that happens to be around.
Witch
Sent from my iPhone
On 17 Nov 2019, at 09:51, klem56 (Redacted sender "klem56" for DMARC)
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On egress I would just add that if you pick an egress heading to very
recognisable land feature the chances are much higher that you will converge
and meet up. Simply saying 'egress heading 280' won't help much if you are
several miles apart after the manoeuvring to avoid flak and fighters, you
will simply remain apart or spend valuable time turning this way and that to
find each-other. A general egress heading relative to the target to a distant
specific RV landmark would be much better, e.g. 'egress heading 280 to RV
lake in 1234.3'. We can make our own adjustments to our actual heading
depending on where we are in relation to the target when we get free of it.
Also we should think carefully before going back to 'help' a lagger, they
are likely to be dead before you get there.... and then it's your turn. The
simple fact is that on egress we are likely to be running away for a very
good reason. :)
klem
http://56punjabvirtualsquad.boards.net/
On 16/11/2019 12:33, 56RAF_phoenix wrote:
I was saying to Cina last night, that in general we need to spend more time
planning our egress. We think quite a lot about how to get to a target while
minimising the chance of interception.
But the egress is often "head for home as fast as we can".
Recon pics as from Stickz really help because we can allocate targets,
maximise the impact (dropping along the axis of the target) and minimise the
turn after drop thereby avoiding speed loss.
Egress in an unexpected direction is a key tool to avoid CAPs.
If we're detected the tactics should depend on the aircraft. Cina and I had
success belting out at full rpm full, throttle in Tempests - but they're no
longer allowed bombs on Combat Box.
Often on egress we're a bit separated, so I'm not convinced we can offer
mutual support without any rear gunner in a P-38, etgo climbing has got to
be our best friend, as long as there's a bit of separation generated by our
egress direction. Otherwise you're reduced to our old Blenheim tactic of
sacrificing one of our number.
56RAF_phoenix
On 15/11/2019 15:17, tim foster (Redacted sender silverwings.stickz for
DMARC) wrote:
I must admit, my idea of perfect egress is that I egress safely rather than
get shot down :)
But yes we were able to use terrain there, and he obviously had better
vision than me cos I was having difficulty seeing you. But it was my own
fault, didnt realise till we must have been nearly a minute off target that
I still had 2 bombs slung. So little target left, nought to drop on and
forgot to ditch em immediately (not gonna admit I cannot count to six).
Normally I would have caught you and been in combat spread before he caught
us. Usually I have come off target quicker than you and it was only cos I
wasnt that made me start to question why.
But the P38 can climb vertically pretty well, you just must have good
energy and distance to be out of shooting range when you do it. Hammerheads
in a P38 can be pretty effective, but do need distance and energy.
Supposedly a gently climbing turn also works well but offline for me it
dont so take it wiv a pinch of salt. Perhaps it needs to be more a steep
climb and gentle turn.
TTFN
Stickz
On 15/11/2019 14:52, Marcin Wochnik wrote:
Hi,
Speaking of egressing from the target on low level me and Stickz bombed
south western airfield on Ruhr Pocket map. We were attacking from west
egressing east on the deck. What I observed atacking like this (west to
east) was that the terrain east of the airfield goes lower that the
airfield which allows perfect egress from target area. No disturbance from
flak while going away from the target. Still we were unlucky to attract
enemy fighter capping the target and he bounced us on the way. I saw him
to late to warn Stickz. He shot him down and moved on me but he overshot
(I went up and then rolled down). He extended up and dove on me again. I
went full boost and RPM, evaded his pass and turned after him. He must
have been quite astonished when he looked back behind in his steep climb.
I could easily keep up with his climb. If I knew I could climb like this
in P38 he would have been dead. But I aimed badly since I assumed I would
stall in a moment. Actually he stalled earlier than me and was making
jerky maneuvers to throw off my aim. When he gained control of the
aircraft and dove down to the deck he could extend from me.
I was amazed that P38 can climb like I did yesterday. I never practised
combat in that plane but I learned my lesson.
Cheers,
Cina
pt., 15 lis 2019 o 15:23 Michael Colby <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
napisał(a):
Interesting about the flak, because if I remember correctly, the 3 of us
in P38's that attacked the target diving close together in a way that we
arrived together very quickly and left together quickly, meant that we
got away and returned home. Perhaps arriving and leaving together very
quickly in one pass with multiple aircraft to split the anti-aircraft
gunfire is a different ball game than arriving as a single aircraft with
no support and drawing all the anti-aircraft gunfire like the proverbial
magnet.
I think there is a lot to be said for a very quick multiple aircraft
single pass on a target, though it does take good teamwork and
co-ordination. If ant-aircraft gunfire is heavy then stay low and egress
(quick as possible out of range of guns and use terrain to mask egress),
but if anti-aircraft gunfire is not heavy then there is more chance to
zoom climb, if that is viewed as desirable. Also, providing we are close
together in a low level attack run after a dive, perhaps a shorter bomb
timer fuse would help us get away with less risk, because some of our
bomb-blast may take out anti-aircraft gunfire that might otherwise shoot
us down (reduce 15 second bomb fuse delay to 10/5 seconds?) Of course,
the serious anti-aircraft guns will be positioned some distance away from
our actual target, but sometimes vehicles and the like that are actually
part of our target can turn their fire at us too. Lead aircraft could
take 10 second bomb delay and the wingman could take a 5 second bomb
delay.
Yes, strafing is risky and I must say that I am not keen on it when
flying a fighter and Stickz makes a good point regarding visibility for
the strafing run due to bombing.
Attacking ground targets is a high risk business, so we have to expect
casualties. But with good planning, teamwork and co-ordinated flying
together we can at least mitigate some of the risk. That is why I don't
mind taking the time beforehand to plan and brief our missions to make
the most of our numbers which can be up to 6 or 8 of us on a good squad
night. It would be great if some of our rested members could return and
fly with us again.
Happy landings,
Talisman
On Friday, 15 November 2019, 11:14:06 GMT, tim foster
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I attacked it last night, got engine damaged again by flak with a single
pass. Not badly, but its unusual that I get hit at all with a fast single
attack. Smaller tempest thats not suffering
compression lock might get out unscathed. And its not a good target to
strafe - and it leaves you vulnerable. Wait for dust to clear, get
firing lane, all that time gone since alerts gone
off with a field 20km away. No one watching you. To strafe you need top
cover, the P38s have left as planned. Much as I want to win a map, I'd
rather we left a strafeable truck and all got home than lose one plane
and get the truck.
TTFN
Stickz
On 15/11/2019 06:09, klem56 (Redacted sender klem56 for DMARC) wrote:
It would have been nice to find something to shoot at but I'd prefer to
avoid a suicidal strafing run unless it meant actually closing the
target. Not much point in killing a few trucks if there is more to kill
that needed another bombing run.
klem
http://56punjabvirtualsquad.boards.net/
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On 14/11/2019 15:09, tim foster (Redacted sender silverwings.stickz for
DMARC) wrote:
Boots right though, the flak there is pretty hard, whilst I took a slow
pass to make those screenshots and then came into attack I got hit
pretty hard (course its a big plane). The strafeable targets are mainly
beside the road, and you can see 3 flak covering it(at least). Once we
wake it up, they would take the full ferocity in the face. With our
15sec bomb delay they gonna be coming in late to give smoke time to
settle to actually see viable targets with us not pulling the flak.
Means they are also way behind. From cina/klem point of view of course
it might have been worth it instead of 2 hours following us around
never seeing an enemy nor firing a gun.
TTFN
Stickz
On 14/11/2019 13:26, Michael Colby (Redacted sender michael.colby82
for DMARC) wrote:
Nice one Stickz. Thanks!
Our two P.38 missions last night were very enjoyable :)
It was good to have the escorts, as visibility from the P.38 is not so
good for searching for bandits on-route.
Looks to me like our escorts, or a portion of our escort, could be
given the option of a single run cannon strafe next time we attack
that target.
Thanks again Stickz.
Happy landings,
Talisman
On Thursday, 14 November 2019, 13:08:07 GMT, tim foster
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
yeah I was trying to put ackbar and the 4077th reference in but
couldnt
remember his name nor the mash number at that time of the morning so
it
got rather lost.
It was meant to be red H is gen ackbars 4077th hospital, then the trap
pun in the second picture line
On 14/11/2019 07:32, Lee Fisher (Redacted sender l.fisher for DMARC)
wrote:
Sent from my iPhone
On 14 Nov 2019, at 07:18, 56RAF_phoenix
<phoenix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I dropped two bombs on the away-from-the-road netted targets, four
on the hospital. That explains why I got only one building.
Good recon, Stickz.
56RAF_phoenix
On 14/11/2019 00:54, tim foster (Redacted sender
silverwings.stickz for DMARC) wrote:
for those of you who only attack a
target once a week so probably cast the same one
once a year
Last nights rally point target, rally tagt shows your view more or
less from the route boot brought you in. The red H is a hospital.
Red squares are target areas.
Rally_close shows a close up also from same route path, red areas
are targets. And I would guess the 2 purple areas are also targets
- although I guess the hospital maybe a trap
TTFN
Stickz
--
if you dont live life on the edge you are taking up too much space
--
if you dont live life on the edge you are taking up too much space
--
if you dont live life on the edge you are taking up too much space
--
if you dont live life on the edge you are taking up too much space
