Well, IMHExperience, getting together ASAP means faffing about in the
target area looking for each other :(
Egressing to a specific RV from a relatively small target area means we
should 'funnel in' on each other. Just my 2p though.
of course if we could actually see what we were doing........
klem
http://56punjabvirtualsquad.boards.net/
On 17/11/2019 09:57, Lee Fisher (Redacted sender l.fisher for DMARC) wrote:
If there are 6 of you in Lightning’s and you’ve dropped your bombs aren’t you going to be MUCH better off getting together ASAP, you will have great mutual support and should easily take on the odd enemy that happens to be around.
Witch
Sent from my iPhone
On 17 Nov 2019, at 09:51, klem56 (Redacted sender "klem56" for DMARC) <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
On egress I would just add that if you pick an egress heading to very recognisable land feature the chances are much higher that you will converge and meet up. Simply saying 'egress heading 280' won't help much if you are several miles apart after the manoeuvring to avoid flak and fighters, you will simply remain apart or spend valuable time turning this way and that to find each-other. A general egress heading _relative to the target_ to a distant specific RV landmark would be much better, e.g. 'egress heading 280 to RV lake in 1234.3'. We can make our own adjustments to our actual heading depending on where we are in relation to the target when we get free of it. Also we should think carefully before going back to 'help' a lagger, they are likely to be dead before you get there.... and then it's your turn. The simple fact is that on egress we are likely to be running away for a very good reason. :)
klem
http://56punjabvirtualsquad.boards.net/
On 16/11/2019 12:33, 56RAF_phoenix wrote:
I was saying to Cina last night, that in general we need to spend more time planning our egress. We think quite a lot about how to get to a target while minimising the chance of interception.
But the egress is often "head for home as fast as we can".
Recon pics as from Stickz really help because we can allocate targets, maximise the impact (dropping along the axis of the target) and minimise the turn after drop thereby avoiding speed loss.
Egress in an/unexpected direction/ is a key tool to avoid CAPs.
If we're detected the tactics should depend on the aircraft. Cina and I had success belting out at full rpm full, throttle in Tempests - but they're no longer allowed bombs on Combat Box.
Often on egress we're a bit separated, so I'm not convinced we can offer mutual support without any rear gunner in a P-38, etgo climbing has got to be our best friend, as long as there's a bit of separation generated by our egress direction. Otherwise you're reduced to our old Blenheim tactic of sacrificing one of our number.
56RAF_phoenix
On 15/11/2019 15:17, tim foster (Redacted sender silverwings.stickz for DMARC) wrote:I must admit, my idea of perfect egress is that I egress safely rather than get shot down :)
But yes we were able to use terrain there, and he obviously had better vision than me cos I was having difficulty seeing you. But it was my own fault, didnt realise till we must have been nearly a minute off target that I still had 2 bombs slung. So little target left, nought to drop on and forgot to ditch em immediately (not gonna admit I cannot count to six). Normally I would have caught you and been in combat spread before he caught us. Usually I have come off target quicker than you and it was only cos I wasnt that made me start to question why.
But the P38 can climb vertically pretty well, you just must have good energy and distance to be out of shooting range when you do it. Hammerheads in a P38 can be pretty effective, but do need distance and energy. Supposedly a gently climbing turn also works well but offline for me it dont so take it wiv a pinch of salt. Perhaps it needs to be more a steep climb and gentle turn.
TTFN
Stickz
On 15/11/2019 14:52, Marcin Wochnik wrote:
Hi,
Speaking of egressing from the target on low level me and Stickz bombed south western airfield on Ruhr Pocket map. We were attacking from west egressing east on the deck. What I observed atacking like this (west to east) was that the terrain east of the airfield goes lower that the airfield which allows perfect egress from target area. No disturbance from flak while going away from the target. Still we were unlucky to attract enemy fighter capping the target and he bounced us on the way. I saw him to late to warn Stickz. He shot him down and moved on me but he overshot (I went up and then rolled down). He extended up and dove on me again. I went full boost and RPM, evaded his pass and turned after him. He must have been quite astonished when he looked back behind in his steep climb. I could easily keep up with his climb. If I knew I could climb like this in P38 he would have been dead. But I aimed badly since I assumed I would stall in a moment. Actually he stalled earlier than me and was making jerky maneuvers to throw off my aim. When he gained control of the aircraft and dove down to the deck he could extend from me.
I was amazed that P38 can climb like I did yesterday. I never practised combat in that plane but I learned my lesson.
Cheers,
Cina
pt., 15 lis 2019 o 15:23 Michael Colby <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> napisał(a):
Interesting about the flak, because if I remember correctly,
the 3 of us in P38's that attacked the target diving close
together in a way that we arrived together very quickly and
left together quickly, meant that we got away and returned
home. Perhaps arriving and leaving together very quickly in
one pass with multiple aircraft to split the anti-aircraft
gunfire is a different ball game than arriving as a single
aircraft with no support and drawing all the anti-aircraft
gunfire like the proverbial magnet.
I think there is a lot to be said for a very quick multiple
aircraft single pass on a target, though it does take good
teamwork and co-ordination. If ant-aircraft gunfire is heavy
then stay low and egress (quick as possible out of range of
guns and use terrain to mask egress), but if anti-aircraft
gunfire is not heavy then there is more chance to zoom climb,
if that is viewed as desirable. Also, providing we are close
together in a low level attack run after a dive, perhaps a
shorter bomb timer fuse would help us get away with less risk,
because some of our bomb-blast may take out anti-aircraft
gunfire that might otherwise shoot us down (reduce 15 second
bomb fuse delay to 10/5 seconds?) Of course, the serious
anti-aircraft guns will be positioned some distance away from
our actual target, but sometimes vehicles and the like that
are actually part of our target can turn their fire at us
too. Lead aircraft could take 10 second bomb delay and the
wingman could take a 5 second bomb delay.
Yes, strafing is risky and I must say that I am not keen on it
when flying a fighter and Stickz makes a good point regarding
visibility for the strafing run due to bombing.
Attacking ground targets is a high risk business, so we have
to expect casualties. But with good planning, teamwork and
co-ordinated flying together we can at least mitigate some of
the risk. That is why I don't mind taking the time beforehand
to plan and brief our missions to make the most of our numbers
which can be up to 6 or 8 of us on a good squad night. It
would be great if some of our rested members could return and
fly with us again.
Happy landings,
Talisman
On Friday, 15 November 2019, 11:14:06 GMT, tim foster
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I attacked it last night, got engine damaged again by flak
with a single pass. Not badly, but its unusual that I get hit
at all with a fast single attack. Smaller tempest thats not
suffering compression lock might get out unscathed. And its
not a good target to strafe - and it leaves you vulnerable.
Wait for dust to clear, get firing lane, all that time gone
since alerts gone off with a field 20km away. No one watching
you. To strafe you need top cover, the P38s have left as
planned. Much as I want to win a map, I'd rather we left a
strafeable truck and all got home than lose one plane and get
the truck.
TTFN
Stickz
On 15/11/2019 06:09, klem56 (Redacted sender klem56 for DMARC)
wrote:
It would have been nice to find something to shoot at but I'd
prefer to avoid a suicidal strafing run unless it meant
actually closing the target. Not much point in killing a few
trucks if there is more to kill that needed another bombing run.
klem
http://56punjabvirtualsquad.boards.net/
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On 14/11/2019 15:09, tim foster (Redacted sender
silverwings.stickz for DMARC) wrote:
Boots right though, the flak there is pretty hard, whilst I
took a slow pass to make those screenshots and then came
into attack I got hit pretty hard (course its a big plane).
The strafeable targets are mainly beside the road, and you
can see 3 flak covering it(at least). Once we wake it up,
they would take the full ferocity in the face. With our
15sec bomb delay they gonna be coming in late to give smoke
time to settle to actually see viable targets with us not
pulling the flak. Means they are also way behind. From
cina/klem point of view of course it might have been worth
it instead of 2 hours following us around never seeing an
enemy nor firing a gun.
TTFN
Stickz
On 14/11/2019 13:26, Michael Colby (Redacted sender
michael.colby82 for DMARC) wrote:
Nice one Stickz. Thanks!
Our two P.38 missions last night were very enjoyable :)
It was good to have the escorts, as visibility from the
P.38 is not so good for searching for bandits on-route.
Looks to me like our escorts, or a portion of our escort,
could be given the option of a single run cannon strafe
next time we attack that target.
Thanks again Stickz.
Happy landings,
Talisman
On Thursday, 14 November 2019, 13:08:07 GMT, tim foster
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
yeah I was trying to put ackbar and the 4077th reference in
but couldnt
remember his name nor the mash number at that time of the
morning so it
got rather lost.
It was meant to be red H is gen ackbars 4077th hospital,
then the trap
pun in the second picture line
On 14/11/2019 07:32, Lee Fisher (Redacted sender l.fisher
for DMARC) wrote:
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 14 Nov 2019, at 07:18, 56RAF_phoenix
<phoenix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:phoenix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> I dropped two bombs on the away-from-the-road netted
targets, four on the hospital. That explains why I got only
one building.
>> Good recon, Stickz.
>>
>> 56RAF_phoenix
>>
>>> On 14/11/2019 00:54, tim foster (Redacted sender
silverwings.stickz for DMARC) wrote:
>>> for those of you who only attack a target once a week
so probably cast the same one once a year
>>>
>>> Last nights rally point target, rally tagt shows your
view more or less from the route boot brought you in. The
red H is a hospital. Red squares are target areas.
>>>
>>> Rally_close shows a close up also from same route path,
red areas are targets. And I would guess the 2 purple areas
are also targets - although I guess the hospital maybe a trap
>>>
>>>
>>> TTFN
>>>
>>> Stickz
>>>
>>
-- if you dont live life on the edge you are taking up too
much space
-- if you dont live life on the edge you are taking up too much space
-- if you dont live life on the edge you are taking up too much space
--
if you dont live life on the edge you are taking up too much space
