[roc-chat] Re: Separate LPR area at ROCtober
- From: Kenneth Brown <ken@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 02:04:24 -0700
I've enquired about this several times and the ROC board members that I
mentioned it to emphatically rejected the idea (some years ago, not he current
one) A separate "Estes" rack is/was used at Plaster Blaster and worked very
well when I launched there. The rack was set up to the side away from the
primary drift zone of the HPR pads and manned by an adult. The kids loaded
their own rockets, hooked up the leads and pushed the button as directed by the
adult in charge. I sometimes behave as an adult and still I used the pads
myself to avoid the wait. I could get 8 or 10 flights off in shorter time then
it would have taken on the main range. If there is no supervisor available,
just pull the key to the launch controller and keep it at the other control
site until an adult will take on the responsibility. The world won't end if the
little site is down for a little while every so often. The LCO can put out the
call that a supervisor is needed and if the LCO is really good, he/she can
apply enough guilt to keep it manned for quite some time. I seem to recall that
there were several scout leaders that took most of the duty at Plaster Blaster.
The argument that the kids don't like it as they want all of the adults to see
their rocket is manure. Maybe a few do, but if they would have to wait 15 mins,
they will choose the other rack. I didn't have any patience when I was a kid
either. The kids at PB had lots of fun calling out their own count down and
pushing the button to launch their rockets. It doesn't take a rocket scientist
to push a button (contrary to industry hiring practices).
ROC still broadcasts on FM, yes? Easy enough to have a portable radio at the
secondary site to hear the announcements and have a walkie talkie to
communicate with the LCO on the HPR range.
Other whining of mine:
There is usually no pattern to the launch order at ROC launches. It has always
been one of my pet peeves when I actually bring out rockets to launch rather
than just taking pictures. I have waited over an hour on a few occasions for my
rocket to get launched and usually wind up waiting 30-40 mins.
One of the processes that leads to the wait is in this scenario:
I get my rocket RSO'd
I get a pad assignment, middle row, left side (LCR set up)
Myself and one other person go out and load on that set of pads and come back
The LCO cycles though some pads, Front, back right, front, middle center,
front, LCO talks on phone, launches front again
Another person is assigned to a pad next to mine and the other rocket already
loaded
A special project is launched off the back row. It took 10 mins since the LCO
did nothing while the waiver was being called in and approved, then there was a
problem with the ignitor that someone ran out to check and fix.
Front row, middle right, 3rd row right
Another person is sent out to a pad assigned in the same row as mine along with
the 2 other rockets there.
Front row, middle right, back row left, front row, middle row left < I was in
the porta pottie
Somebody's kid riding their motorcycle picks up my rocket as I am hiking out to
find it and "helpfully" brings it back to the head of the range while I search
an hour for it (darnit, I didn't bring a second water bottle with me)
Questions: Why are kids being allowed to ride motorcycles around? Why
aren't they being taught not to touch other people's things?
More regular announcements need to be made about those 2
subjects. Every hour or two at least. Since ROC really can't do anything much
to enforce the OHV ban, should the sheriff be called if people continue to ride
their motorcycles around the ROC area after being told not to? Is
the BLM likely to hold ROC responsible or take note in a way that impacts ROC's
good standing and continued use of BLM land?
Get the picture? It's not a malicious effort on the LCO's part to see that I
only get to launch once or twice during the day and only after some sort of W
has reared it's ugly head. It's a book keeping problem.
Some possible fixes:
A group of pads is opened for loading only once in the cycle and then closed
regardless of whether there is one rocket or the set is full.
A white board or a simple paper template sheet of the pads is available to the
Pad Manager to sequence the pads being launched.
A "O" symbol is made when rockets are headed out to be loaded, a / is put
through the "O" when the rockets are loaded and ready, a \ is marked when the
row is launched crossing out "O"
As much as possible, the same sequence is used to determine which set
of pads is launched next. If people are still tinkering when the set is due, it
gets skipped and launched the next time. Exceptions can be made for special
projects.
An LCO that is having to answer lots of cell phone calls, needs to have many
conversations with people or enjoys looking over the areas behind the table a
lot may need to be replaced immediately.
It's annoying to be waiting a long time for your rocket to be launched
and keep noticing the LCO is doing something not related to launching rockets.
LCO duty is really easy; read announcements, admonish the peasants about paying
their taxes on time, look up, look out and push the red button. The more
technical job is that of the Pad Manager. If the PM can keep organized and feed
the LCO the next stack of launch cards as he needs them, the LCO can
concentrate on pushing buttons and making sure that the range and sky are clear
(vice versa, actually). Having enough volunteers that will act as spotters and
assist the pad manager will speed things up.
I tried to think of a quick book keeping system that can be taught to a new LCO
or pad manager in 2 min's or less. It might not be perfect, but any comments
that "it will never work" or a "but, <insert excuse>" should not be sent in
reply. An efficient method of making sure that everybody's rocket gets launched
in a timely manner has been ignored for years. ROC launches and especially
ROCStock launches are so large now that many people wind up with waits like I
have experienced. The front row dilemma has also been around for many years.
ROC should try having a separate A,B,C,D launch rack at ROCStocks. I get very
angry when problems like this just keep getting ignored and when suggestions
are made, they are denounced without an alternative by board or "senior"
members. I want the kids that come out to launch their rockets to get in as
many launches are their parents are willing to buy them motors for and at the
same time I don't want anybody launching larger rockets to have to suffer. I
usually don't have electronics on my rockets, but I worry about the people
whose rockets do. Excessive wait times of rockets that contain altimeter,
timers, cameras, gps units and trackers might be causing some of them to fail
of recovery (crash). There are many things that can go wrong with a rocket's
system, but having electronics on and depleting batteries is something that can
be avoided. Aerotech representatives, Gary and Karl, have determined that some
motor failures that they have witnessed may have been due to rockets being on
the pad for excessive amounts of time in the sun. The propellent gets very hot
(or warm comparatively) and slumps, separates and fractures. Boom.
I hope that there will be some more ideas on streamlining the launch process.
We can refine as we go along, but not getting something in place is criminal.
If you are thinking of criticizing somebody's suggestion and don't have a good
one of your own to contribute in the same email, please discorporate.
Ken Brown
> --- On Sun, 6/24/12, Richard Dierking <richard.dierking@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I think the idea is good providing close coordination of the two areas.
>
> This is what I've always wondered about whenever the idea has been proposed.
> Sure, they're low power, relatively small rockets. But that doesn't mean
> they're harmless. How would someone operating this range communicate to
> others when something goes wrong, like a cruise missile or lakestake? We
> still get comments from time to time about not being able to hear the PA
> speakers, so would a megaphone or smaller PA system be enough? And, would
> people paying attention to a launch on the "big" range be able to shift their
> attention quickly enough?
>
> If the downside is not overwhelming, maybe we could do a trial run.
>
> Alternatively, if the idea is to reduce wait time on the front pads, maybe we
> could launch them more often, like do the front row, then middle row, then
> front row, then back row, then front row . . .
>
> Mike
>
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