[mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
- From: "Julio C. Perez" <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 18:36:30 -0500
So now I have both VO and safari set to their defaults as though I never messed
with them before. Clean start… I hope! Thanks for getting me this far. Now for
a little non-interventional exploration.
On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:32 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
> safari is easy to reset, go to the safari menu when you have safari open and
> activate the "reset safari item at the bottom of the menu.
> I'm also wondering what your vo settings are. have you tried it with
> defaults?
> also, have you tried it with a different account?
>
> Permission repair is an option which may help although there is no way to
> repair safari specifically. You can download and run the installer for
> safari but I'm thinking that that will not change anything as it seems as
> though you are having an vo issue.
>
> On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:45 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>
> So that brings me back to either resetting safari to its initial defaults or
> repairing it or reinstalling it. What choice do I have now?
> On Mar 5, 2012, at 7:59 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>
>> it is the only browser that fires when you activate help.
>>
>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>
>> No, this isn't working on my system at this time. I have had this work in
>> the not too distant past but it isn't working now.
>>
>> Is safari the only browser that works under the Mac OS with voiceover?
>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 8:02 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>
>>> vo right arrow after clicking show.
>>>
>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:06 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>
>>> Weird and frustrating! In detail…
>>>
>>> 1. I select the link "voiceover basics". This takes me to a content list
>>> with seven items. I can either navigate to one of those links (lets say the
>>> "selecting a sigle item" link) or open the contents list by interacting
>>> with it and then arrowing down to the link. In either case, the result is
>>> the same. A list of "show" clickable items appears which when clicked on
>>> does not display text information but only changes the "show" option to a
>>> "hide" option.
>>>
>>> The VO-shift-up arrow WILL stop interacting with the current item every
>>> time. I've also used the quick nab left-down arrow and the num-pad #7. The
>>> problem is not with the interaction. The problem is that the explanatory
>>> text never appears… or maybe it does but I don't know where.
>>>
>>> I'm going to check with the Apple Accessibility folks and see what they can
>>> add to the mix.
>>>
>>> Thanks to you and all for all of your help so far.
>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:35 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>
>>>> looking at this again, something weird is going on here because are
>>>> describing something you are interacting with and vo-shift-up arrow should
>>>> stop interacting. vo right and left arrow move through the text.
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This exploration is yielding lots of new knowledge. I've now know about
>>>> the quick nab feature and how to use the various combination of arrow keys
>>>> to control safari operations. Unfortunately, my basic original problem
>>>> remains. Oh well… back to the front!
>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 11:38 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> sorry, this is the stop interacting key and it sounded like you were
>>>>> interacting with something.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:24 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If I press "cvo-shift-up arrow"Do you mean "command-VO-shift-up arrow"?
>>>>> cause if I do this it has the effect of moving the VO cursor up.
>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:33 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> press cvo-shift-up arrow and then try vo-right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> VO-left or right arrows only take me (line by line) to the top or bottom
>>>>>> of the object I'm interacting with. Either links to other topics or
>>>>>> groups. Not explanatory text.
>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:04 PM, John Panarese wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you vo space on the clickable item, try navigating right with the VO
>>>>>>> and right arrow keys. See if that reveals anything for you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:02 PM, "Julio C. Perez" <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks John for the detailed clarification. I guess I did not get it
>>>>>>>> when David said it the first time. I can get back to the proper window
>>>>>>>> within the application by using the command-f2 twice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now I can get back to the issue I started this thread with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So here I am in the help topic that is supposed to explain how to
>>>>>>>> select and deselect single and multiple items. I have here a list of
>>>>>>>> clickable objects that say "show" group with two items. When I
>>>>>>>> interact with the group, I find two clickable items within (as
>>>>>>>> expected). When I click on the "show" clickable, I expect to get to
>>>>>>>> some text or html window that explains how to do this. The only thing
>>>>>>>> I seem to find is that there now appears a "hide" clickable. Where do
>>>>>>>> I go to find the instructions for selecting or deselecting one or more
>>>>>>>> items? The window chooser command only gives me the "help" and
>>>>>>>> "utilities" child windows. Could this have something to do with the
>>>>>>>> navigational mode or something?
>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:40 PM, John Panarese wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The command-accent combination, which is the key below the escape
>>>>>>>>> key, will cycle you through open windows in an application.
>>>>>>>>> Command-tab cycles you through your open applications. For the help,
>>>>>>>>> try the command-accent or David's suggestion of using the window
>>>>>>>>> chooser menu with VO-F2 twice and then using the up and down arrows
>>>>>>>>> to see a list of your currently open windows.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>>>>>>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:36 PM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> hummmm what is a grave key, please??
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tracy Duffy
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:32
>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can also try command along with the grav key. This will move you
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> window to window within an application. At least it does in
>>>>>>>>>> Snowleopard.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:30 PM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> good job david i am not on my mac and could not remember that command
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mac4theblind-
>>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert Poehlman
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:27
>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> try vo-f2 twice to bring up a list of open windows.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, when I press command-tab twice, it doesn't bring me to the
>>>>>>>>>> previously open help topic I left. It only switches me to the other
>>>>>>>>>> application windows or brings me back to the same VO utilities
>>>>>>>>>> window.
>>>>>>>>>> If I go to the menu and arrow down the windows options, I only see
>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>> applications window available to choose from. Is one of those other
>>>>>>>>>> options on that windows drop-down the one I need to take me back to
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> topic I left? How does one switch to different windows within an
>>>>>>>>>> application window?
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:00 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> try command-tab twice.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:47 AM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> First of all command tab changes your application from one to another
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> windows within a application.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mac4theblind-
>>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Julio C. Perez
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 08:44
>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ok, here is an example..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am currently in a help window that has . here is an even better
>>>>>>>>>> example of not having a clue of something that should be (and needs
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> be) understood by a neophyte.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As I am writing this message, I switch to another window where I'm
>>>>>>>>>> working with a help topic. I switch back to this window to write
>>>>>>>>>> something and when I use the "command-tab" hoping to return to the
>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>> window. I end up back in the VoiceOver utilities area. Not the help
>>>>>>>>>> topic I thought I would be going to. How do I make this simple
>>>>>>>>>> switch
>>>>>>>>>> from one window to another without having to navigate back to the
>>>>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>>>>> layer after linked layer?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is the sort of thing that I never had to think about before.
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:24 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> can you give us an example? I believe I know what you need to do
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> rather than searching through help for an item, it would speed up
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> process having an example.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It seems like the more I think I've learned, the more I know I've
>>>>>>>>>> missed!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Right now I'm going through the VoiceOver help menu seeking areas
>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>> weak on and hoping to learn more. When I get to a "show" clickable
>>>>>>>>>> object, I select it. and nothing seems to happen except that it
>>>>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>>> from a "show" to a "hide" area. Where does the related information
>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>> shown? What part of this process am I not getting?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I can freely admit that navigation and safari navigation in
>>>>>>>>>> particular are my weakest areas. This makes learning via the
>>>>>>>>>> provided
>>>>>>>>>> help topics slow. Does anyone know of a good tutorial for
>>>>>>>>>> transplanted
>>>>>>>>>> windows/internet explorer/JAWS users? I mean, there should be enough
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> us by now to have, at least, an email list that can serve as a place
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> trade and ask for information that might bore those of you for whom
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> mac environment is natural.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /jp, mac user without papers!************
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
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>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
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>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> tracyduffy@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> Isaiah 2:11 Human pride will be brought down,
>>>>>>>>>> and human arrogance will be humbled.
>>>>>>>>>> Only the LORD will be exalted
>>>>>>>>>> on that day of judgment.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>> With His
>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>>>>> their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>>>> their list subscription is:
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>>>>>
>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>> With His
>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>>>> their list subscription is:
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>>>>>
>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ************
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>
>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>> With His
>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>
>>>> ************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>> With His
>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>> Touching The Internet
>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>
>>
>> ************
>>
>>
>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>
>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jonnie Appleseed
>> With His
>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>> Touching The Internet
>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>> One Byte At A Tie
>>
>> ************
>>
>>
>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>
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>>
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>>
>
> ************
>
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>
>
> --
> Jonnie Appleseed
> With His
> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> Touching The Internet
> Reducing Technology's disabilities
> One Byte At A Tie
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>
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