[mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
- From: "Julio C. Perez" <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 22:45:02 -0500
So that brings me back to either resetting safari to its initial defaults or
repairing it or reinstalling it. What choice do I have now?
On Mar 5, 2012, at 7:59 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
> it is the only browser that fires when you activate help.
>
> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>
> No, this isn't working on my system at this time. I have had this work in the
> not too distant past but it isn't working now.
>
> Is safari the only browser that works under the Mac OS with voiceover?
> On Mar 4, 2012, at 8:02 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>
>> vo right arrow after clicking show.
>>
>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:06 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>
>> Weird and frustrating! In detail…
>>
>> 1. I select the link "voiceover basics". This takes me to a content list
>> with seven items. I can either navigate to one of those links (lets say the
>> "selecting a sigle item" link) or open the contents list by interacting with
>> it and then arrowing down to the link. In either case, the result is the
>> same. A list of "show" clickable items appears which when clicked on does
>> not display text information but only changes the "show" option to a "hide"
>> option.
>>
>> The VO-shift-up arrow WILL stop interacting with the current item every
>> time. I've also used the quick nab left-down arrow and the num-pad #7. The
>> problem is not with the interaction. The problem is that the explanatory
>> text never appears… or maybe it does but I don't know where.
>>
>> I'm going to check with the Apple Accessibility folks and see what they can
>> add to the mix.
>>
>> Thanks to you and all for all of your help so far.
>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:35 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>
>>> looking at this again, something weird is going on here because are
>>> describing something you are interacting with and vo-shift-up arrow should
>>> stop interacting. vo right and left arrow move through the text.
>>>
>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>
>>> This exploration is yielding lots of new knowledge. I've now know about the
>>> quick nab feature and how to use the various combination of arrow keys to
>>> control safari operations. Unfortunately, my basic original problem
>>> remains. Oh well… back to the front!
>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 11:38 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>
>>>> sorry, this is the stop interacting key and it sounded like you were
>>>> interacting with something.
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:24 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If I press "cvo-shift-up arrow"Do you mean "command-VO-shift-up arrow"?
>>>> cause if I do this it has the effect of moving the VO cursor up.
>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:33 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> press cvo-shift-up arrow and then try vo-right.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> VO-left or right arrows only take me (line by line) to the top or bottom
>>>>> of the object I'm interacting with. Either links to other topics or
>>>>> groups. Not explanatory text.
>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:04 PM, John Panarese wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you vo space on the clickable item, try navigating right with the VO
>>>>>> and right arrow keys. See if that reveals anything for you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>>> Director
>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:02 PM, "Julio C. Perez" <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks John for the detailed clarification. I guess I did not get it
>>>>>>> when David said it the first time. I can get back to the proper window
>>>>>>> within the application by using the command-f2 twice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now I can get back to the issue I started this thread with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So here I am in the help topic that is supposed to explain how to
>>>>>>> select and deselect single and multiple items. I have here a list of
>>>>>>> clickable objects that say "show" group with two items. When I interact
>>>>>>> with the group, I find two clickable items within (as expected). When I
>>>>>>> click on the "show" clickable, I expect to get to some text or html
>>>>>>> window that explains how to do this. The only thing I seem to find is
>>>>>>> that there now appears a "hide" clickable. Where do I go to find the
>>>>>>> instructions for selecting or deselecting one or more items? The window
>>>>>>> chooser command only gives me the "help" and "utilities" child windows.
>>>>>>> Could this have something to do with the navigational mode or
>>>>>>> something?
>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:40 PM, John Panarese wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The command-accent combination, which is the key below the escape key,
>>>>>>>> will cycle you through open windows in an application. Command-tab
>>>>>>>> cycles you through your open applications. For the help, try the
>>>>>>>> command-accent or David's suggestion of using the window chooser menu
>>>>>>>> with VO-F2 twice and then using the up and down arrows to see a list
>>>>>>>> of your currently open windows.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>>>>>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:36 PM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> hummmm what is a grave key, please??
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tracy Duffy
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:32
>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can also try command along with the grav key. This will move you
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> window to window within an application. At least it does in
>>>>>>>>> Snowleopard.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:30 PM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> good job david i am not on my mac and could not remember that command
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mac4theblind-
>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert Poehlman
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:27
>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> try vo-f2 twice to bring up a list of open windows.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, when I press command-tab twice, it doesn't bring me to the
>>>>>>>>> previously open help topic I left. It only switches me to the other
>>>>>>>>> application windows or brings me back to the same VO utilities window.
>>>>>>>>> If I go to the menu and arrow down the windows options, I only see one
>>>>>>>>> applications window available to choose from. Is one of those other
>>>>>>>>> options on that windows drop-down the one I need to take me back to
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> topic I left? How does one switch to different windows within an
>>>>>>>>> application window?
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:00 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> try command-tab twice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:47 AM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> First of all command tab changes your application from one to another
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> windows within a application.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mac4theblind-
>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Julio C. Perez
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 08:44
>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ok, here is an example..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am currently in a help window that has . here is an even better
>>>>>>>>> example of not having a clue of something that should be (and needs
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> be) understood by a neophyte.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I am writing this message, I switch to another window where I'm
>>>>>>>>> working with a help topic. I switch back to this window to write
>>>>>>>>> something and when I use the "command-tab" hoping to return to the
>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>> window. I end up back in the VoiceOver utilities area. Not the help
>>>>>>>>> topic I thought I would be going to. How do I make this simple
>>>>>>>>> switch
>>>>>>>>> from one window to another without having to navigate back to the
>>>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>>>> layer after linked layer?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is the sort of thing that I never had to think about before.
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:24 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> can you give us an example? I believe I know what you need to do
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> rather than searching through help for an item, it would speed up
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> process having an example.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It seems like the more I think I've learned, the more I know I've
>>>>>>>>> missed!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Right now I'm going through the VoiceOver help menu seeking areas
>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>> weak on and hoping to learn more. When I get to a "show" clickable
>>>>>>>>> object, I select it. and nothing seems to happen except that it
>>>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>> from a "show" to a "hide" area. Where does the related information
>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> shown? What part of this process am I not getting?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can freely admit that navigation and safari navigation in
>>>>>>>>> particular are my weakest areas. This makes learning via the
>>>>>>>>> provided
>>>>>>>>> help topics slow. Does anyone know of a good tutorial for
>>>>>>>>> transplanted
>>>>>>>>> windows/internet explorer/JAWS users? I mean, there should be enough
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> us by now to have, at least, an email list that can serve as a place
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> trade and ask for information that might bore those of you for whom
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> mac environment is natural.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> /jp, mac user without papers!************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> tracyduffy@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Isaiah 2:11 Human pride will be brought down,
>>>>>>>>> and human arrogance will be humbled.
>>>>>>>>> Only the LORD will be exalted
>>>>>>>>> on that day of judgment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes
>>>>>>>> to their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>>>>> their list subscription is:
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>>>> their list subscription is:
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>>>>>
>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>> With His
>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>>>> their list subscription is:
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>>>>>
>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>>> their list subscription is:
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>>>>
>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>
>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>
>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>> With His
>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>
>>>> ************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>>> their list subscription is:
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>>>>
>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>
>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>
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>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>
>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>> With His
>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>> Touching The Internet
>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>> ************
>>
>>
>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>
>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jonnie Appleseed
>> With His
>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>> Touching The Internet
>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>> One Byte At A Tie
>>
>> ************
>>
>>
>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>
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>>
>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>
>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> --
> Jonnie Appleseed
> With His
> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> Touching The Internet
> Reducing Technology's disabilities
> One Byte At A Tie
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>
>
> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
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>
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