Irene:
Did Jews not know what they were getting into when they situated Israel in Palestine? Who did they think lived there?
Stan Spiegel Portland, Maine
Just one question, Stan. Did Jews not know what they were getting into when they situated Israel in Palestine? Who did they think lived there?
in[Original Message] From: Stan Spiegel <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: 2/8/2006 9:57:55 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Link to "Mohammed" cartoons
J.E. Who, here, has sought to suggest there are no anti-Jewish cartoonsimaginethe Muslim world? Who, here, is unaware of the hate literature there? Why should youwell,for one moment even that we (who regard the cartoons as offensive) think part of the Muslim response (the response of part of the Muslim world) should not be criticised? To think we say or believe that they are both exempt from criticism and are the only ones exempt from criticism is,I'mstrange.
S.S. When David Savory tells us: If you knew anything about Islam you'd know you don't draw pictures of Muhammad. Period.-- then I guess(andstrange to take offense. I'm strange when I'm asked to be sensitive to muslim feelings when they're free to draw disgusting pictures of Jews. David's self-righteousness about muslim sensitivities leaves me pretty disgusted. This whole discussion shows too much sensitivity to Muslimsirrelevant.insensitivity to Jews.) That you have some hidden awareness of the hatred they show -- and feel justified in showing again and again -- isthereWe're not talking about "hate literature." We're talking about education. The systematic education of muslim children. That's different from hate literature, Judy.
The muslim point of view is so toxic (and uncompromisingly dangerous)Westernare virtually no Jews that live in the 22 Arab nations that surround and hope to annihilate Israel.
And we should be sensitive to Muslims who move to Denmark and othersocieties? Why are they living there instead of in Syria and SaudiArabia,Denmarkin Lebanon and Kuwait? They moved there predictably because there's more hope and promise of a better life. In exchange for that better life, they needed to learn the values of an open society. That included freedom of speech.
If you read the interconnected articles attached to those cartoons, you'd know that muslims in Denmark expected the govt to apologize to them.refused! That wouldn't have happened in England or America, I think.Theirreflected.)refusal to apologize underlined the value of freedom of speech. That newspaper had the right to criticize muslims (which the cartoons of Muhammedcartoons?It needed to be said out loud.
Have you noticed how many newspapers in America have shown those(None) Until I showed them, how many of you even knew what they lookedlike?That the uproar muslims created intimidated American newspapers intosilence(not showing the cartoons is silence) is troubling. Are we to treatMuslimsin Western societies different from any other ethnic (not religious)grouptheyin order to avoid bloodshed?
Stan Spiegel Portland, ME
----- Original Message ----- From: "JUDITH EVANS" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 3:05 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Link to "Mohammed" cartoons
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stan Spiegel" <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>> If you knew anything about Islam, David, you'd know how methodicallyinto>> educate their children to hate Jews. Carefully, systematically, >> unrelentingly. Interesting to see how sensitive you are to those poor >> thin-skinned Muslims. I'm not! Especially those who've been welcomed>> Western countries like Denmark. They've seen political cartoons >> before.was
> Are
>> they the only ones who are to be exempt from criticism?
>
> Stan, when I first posted -- here and on another list -- to the effect
> that
> I thought a couple of these cartoons were offensive, a major responseit,> that I believed in threatening to kill (pr even in killing) the > cartoonists > or the publisher. I don't think anyone who said that really believed> still, they did believe I hadn't defended free speech adequately.
>
> Your response seems to me to be a variant of this tic. Who, here, has
> sought to suggest there are no anti-Jewish cartoons in the Muslim > world?
> Who, here, is unaware of the hate literature there? Why should you
> imagine
> for one moment even that we (who regard the cartoons as offensive) > think
> part of the Muslim response (the response of part of the Muslim world)
> should not be criticised? To think we say or believe that they are > both
> exempt from criticism and are the only ones exempt from criticism is,
> well,
> strange.
>
>
>
>
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