[lit-ideas] Re: Link to "Mohammed" cartoons
- From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 22:06:58 -0500
Just one question, Stan. Did Jews not know what they were getting into
when they situated Israel in Palestine? Who did they think lived there?
> [Original Message]
> From: Stan Spiegel <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 2/8/2006 9:57:55 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Link to "Mohammed" cartoons
>
> J.E. Who, here, has sought to suggest there are no anti-Jewish cartoons
in
> the Muslim world?
> Who, here, is unaware of the hate literature there? Why should you
imagine
> for one moment even that we (who regard the cartoons as offensive) think
> part of the Muslim response (the response of part of the Muslim world)
> should not be criticised? To think we say or believe that they are both
> exempt from criticism and are the only ones exempt from criticism is,
well,
> strange.
>
> S.S. When David Savory tells us: If you knew anything about Islam
> you'd know you don't draw pictures of Muhammad. Period.-- then I guess
I'm
> strange to take offense. I'm strange when I'm asked to be sensitive to
> muslim feelings when they're free to draw disgusting pictures of Jews.
> David's self-righteousness about muslim sensitivities leaves me pretty
> disgusted. This whole discussion shows too much sensitivity to Muslims
(and
> insensitivity to Jews.) That you have some hidden awareness of the hatred
> they show -- and feel justified in showing again and again -- is
irrelevant.
> We're not talking about "hate literature." We're talking about education.
> The systematic education of muslim children. That's different from hate
> literature, Judy.
>
> The muslim point of view is so toxic (and uncompromisingly dangerous)
there
> are virtually no Jews that live in the 22 Arab nations that surround and
> hope to annihilate Israel.
>
> And we should be sensitive to Muslims who move to Denmark and other
Western
> societies? Why are they living there instead of in Syria and Saudi
Arabia,
> in Lebanon and Kuwait? They moved there predictably because there's more
> hope and promise of a better life. In exchange for that better life, they
> needed to learn the values of an open society. That included freedom of
> speech.
>
> If you read the interconnected articles attached to those cartoons, you'd
> know that muslims in Denmark expected the govt to apologize to them.
Denmark
> refused! That wouldn't have happened in England or America, I think.
Their
> refusal to apologize underlined the value of freedom of speech. That
> newspaper had
> the right to criticize muslims (which the cartoons of Muhammed
reflected.)
> It needed to be said out loud.
>
> Have you noticed how many newspapers in America have shown those
cartoons?
> (None) Until I showed them, how many of you even knew what they looked
like?
> That the uproar muslims created intimidated American newspapers into
silence
> (not showing the cartoons is silence) is troubling. Are we to treat
Muslims
> in Western societies different from any other ethnic (not religious)
group
> in order to avoid bloodshed?
>
> Stan Spiegel
> Portland, ME
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JUDITH EVANS" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 3:05 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Link to "Mohammed" cartoons
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stan Spiegel" <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >> If you knew anything about Islam, David, you'd know how methodically
they
> >> educate their children to hate Jews. Carefully, systematically,
> >> unrelentingly. Interesting to see how sensitive you are to those poor
> >> thin-skinned Muslims. I'm not! Especially those who've been welcomed
into
> >> Western countries like Denmark. They've seen political cartoons before.
> > Are
> >> they the only ones who are to be exempt from criticism?
> >
> > Stan, when I first posted -- here and on another list -- to the effect
> > that
> > I thought a couple of these cartoons were offensive, a major response
was
> > that I believed in threatening to kill (pr even in killing) the
> > cartoonists
> > or the publisher. I don't think anyone who said that really believed
it,
> > still, they did believe I hadn't defended free speech adequately.
> >
> > Your response seems to me to be a variant of this tic. Who, here, has
> > sought to suggest there are no anti-Jewish cartoons in the Muslim world?
> > Who, here, is unaware of the hate literature there? Why should you
> > imagine
> > for one moment even that we (who regard the cartoons as offensive) think
> > part of the Muslim response (the response of part of the Muslim world)
> > should not be criticised? To think we say or believe that they are both
> > exempt from criticism and are the only ones exempt from criticism is,
> > well,
> > strange.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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