[lit-ideas] Re: Link to "Mohammed" cartoons
- From: JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 23:08:39 EST
<<But it sounds like the other side was sporting for a fight too in the
guise of free speech. >>
I don't believe it was "the other side".... NPR did a report yesterday or
today which said that the cartoon had originally been printed in September,
that an Imam in Denmark had taken offense and contacted the PM to ask for an
apology, the PM refused, and the Imam had distributed hundreds of copies
around
the Arab world ..... again, I find the timing not entirely coincidental w/
the current situation in Iran. It seems clear to me that the Imam, followed
by various ME countries, are inflaming the situation to suit their agendas.
THEY are spoiling for the fight!
Julie Krueger
========Original Message======== Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: Link to
"Mohammed" cartoons Date: 2/8/06 9:29:59 P.M. Central Standard Time From:
_aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) To:
_lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) Sent on:
I doubt it and I think there would be quite the uproar as well. I'm not
suggesting that the behavior was acceptable. It was a gross overreaction.
But
it sounds like the other side was sporting for a fight too in the guise of
free speech. Nobody was acting civilized. When someone overreacts, it's
guaranteed that there are deep issues going on. Shame and hostility are not
the
way to deal with deep issues. Wouldn't it have been better, even far better,
if the Muslims were treated with respect, their religion treated with
respect? Then they would learn what respect is by receiving it and
experiencing
it, and over time they would see first hand how deficient their own
intolerance
is. We give what we have. If they get respect and tolerance, they can give
respect and tolerance. Instead, they learned that Denmark is filled with
hostile people. What do you do w hen you experience hostility? You hunker
down and get hostile. Denmark flew its colors as no better than anybody else,
including the Muslims.
----- Original Message -----
From: (mailto:JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx)
To: _lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Sent: 2/8/2006 10:12:56 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Link to "Mohammed" cartoons
<<That the uproar muslims created intimidated American newspapers into
silence
(not showing the cartoons is silence) is troubling.>>
I'm wondering .... if there were an incredibly offensive cartoon satirizing
Jews that was printed in a foreign newspaper (well, there are, constantly --
see Al Jazeera etc.) and it made the news in America, would American
newspapers reprint the cartoons as part of their coverage of the story?
Julie Krueger
========Original Message======== Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: Link to
"Mohammed" cartoons Date: 2/8/06 8:58:06 P.M. Central Standard Time From:
_writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx) To:
_lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) Sent on:
J.E. Who, here, has sought to suggest there are no anti-Jewish cartoons in
the Muslim world?
Who, here, is unaware of the hate literature there? Why should you imagine
for one moment even that we (who regard the cartoons as offensive) think
part of the Muslim response (the response of part of the Muslim world)
should not be criticised? To think we say or believe that they are both
exempt from criticism and are the only ones exempt from criticism is, well,
strange.
S.S. When David Savory tells us: If you knew anything about Islam
you'd know you don't draw pictures of Muhammad. Period.-- then I guess I'm
strange to take offense. I'm strange when I'm asked to be sensitive to
muslim feelings when they're free to draw disgusting pictures of Jews.
David's self-righteousness about muslim sensitivities leaves me pretty
disgusted. Th is whole discussion shows too much sensitivity to Muslims (and
insensitivity to Jews.) That you have some hidden awareness of the hatred
they show -- and feel justified in showing again and again -- is irrelevant.
We're not talking about "hate literature." We're talking about education.
The systematic education of muslim children. That's different from hate
literature, Judy.
The muslim point of view is so toxic (and uncompromisingly dangerous) there
are virtually no Jews that live in the 22 Arab nations that surround and
hope to annihilate Israel.
And we should be sensitive to Muslims who move to Denmark and other Western
societies? Why are they living there instead of in Syria and Saudi Arabia,
in Lebanon and Kuwait? They moved there predictably because there's more
hope and promise of a better life. In exchange for that better life, they
needed to learn the values of an open society. That included freedom of
spe ech.
If you read the interconnected articles attached to those cartoons, you'd
know that muslims in Denmark expected the govt to apologize to them. Denmark
refused! That wouldn't have happened in England or America, I think. Their
refusal to apologize underlined the value of freedom of speech. That
newspaper had
the right to criticize muslims (which the cartoons of Muhammed reflected.)
It needed to be said out loud.
Have you noticed how many newspapers in America have shown those cartoons?
(None) Until I showed them, how many of you even knew what they looked like?
That the uproar muslims created intimidated American newspapers into silence
(not showing the cartoons is silence) is troubling. Are we to treat Muslims
in Western societies different from any other ethnic (not religious) group
in order to avoid bloodshed?
Stan Spiegel
Portland, ME
----- Original Message -----
From: "JUDITH EVANS" &l t;judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 3:05 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Link to "Mohammed" cartoons
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stan Spiegel" <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>> If you knew anything about Islam, David, you'd know how methodically they
>> educate their children to hate Jews. Carefully, systematically,
>> unrelentingly. Interesting to see how sensitive you are to those poor
>> thin-skinned Muslims. I'm not! Especially those who've been welcomed into
>> Western countries like Denmark. They've seen political cartoons before.
> Are
>> they the only ones who are to be exempt from criticism?
>
> Stan, when I first posted -- here and on another list -- to the effect
> that
> I thought a couple of these cartoons were offensive, a major response was
> that I b elieved in threatening to kill (pr even in killing) the
> cartoonists
> or the publisher. I don't think anyone who said that really believed it,
> still, they did believe I hadn't defended free speech adequately.
>
> Your response seems to me to be a variant of this tic. Who, here, has
> sought to suggest there are no anti-Jewish cartoons in the Muslim world?
> Who, here, is unaware of the hate literature there? Why should you
> imagine
> for one moment even that we (who regard the cartoons as offensive) think
> part of the Muslim response (the response of part of the Muslim world)
> should not be criticised? To think we say or believe that they are both
> exempt from criticism and are the only ones exempt from criticism is,
> well,
> strange.
>
>
>
>
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