[haiku-development] Re: RFC: Packages and the Deskbar menu
- From: Stephan Aßmus <superstippi@xxxxxx>
- To: haiku-development@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 13:11:10 +0200
Hi,
Am 22.05.2013 um 12:09 schrieb John Scipione <jscipione@xxxxxxxxx>:
> On May 22, 2013, at 3:16 AM, Axel Dörfler <axeld@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Am 22/05/2013 00:39, schrieb John Scipione:
>> I see the word "organized" here -- a single list with hundreds of
>> applications is not organized.
>> Since you don't like categories all that much, it seems like a good idea to
>> give you an alternative at hand :-)
>
> Organized does not have to mean categories. A flat list is organized too.
I would argue that the name of an application, which would be about the only
means of organization in a flat list, is even more arbitrary than any category
could be.
>>> Except when they don't... you are seriously going to tell me that
>>> Apple and Google have figured out a foolproof categorization system
>>> for apps? I find that notion to be arrogant and ignorant.
>>
>> Who cares if it is foolproof? It cannot be, as the application developers
>> are responsible for finding the category (or rather categories) that matter.
>> This doesn't really matter, though.
>
> It does matter. Arbitrary categories are worse than none as I'll explain
> below.
I couldn't find any explanation below.
>> Hm, have you ever actually used Android, or iOS, or even Windows? Having to
>> search for an application out of tens of them is purely annoying. Especially
>> if their location may change from time to time (for example, my Android
>> phone had a completely random application list after each restart).
>
> You give those platform too little credit, there is wisdom there you are
> ignoring. Allowing users to organize apps arbitrarily, prominent search,
> showing a few apps at a time, remembering the relative locations.
It's not about giving the platforms credit or not. It's about what we all have
used in the past, what sucked and what worked. And nobody said there would be
no search and no organizing apps manually.
> You're assuming that applications fall into meaningful genres like music
> does. That isn't true. And arbitrary categories are not helpful, they are
> harmful. They produce a labyrinth of arbitrary choices that the user MUST
> navigate each time. Meaningful categories would be helpful but there are none.
Applications don't fall into categories? Of course they do. At least the
majority of them do and that would be the whole point.
> And it isn't a one time cost, arbitrary categories make it harder to find the
> app your looking for each and every time. I'll never remember the category
> some developer decided on for their app so I pay the price thousands of times.
When Axel says he would remember the category the first time, maybe he
exaggerated a little bit. When you say you will never remember it, you are
totally blowing things out of proportion and it doesn't make your argument
stronger. Of course you will remember it, just like you would remember the name
and position in the flat list eventually.
> Search is helpful even if it only searches on a name. Sure, searching apps
> could be enhanced by using attributes, but that is another discussion.
Again, nobody said search wouldn't be there. We could even accommodate the flat
list feature wish by having an extra "All" category or separate mode.
> It's not a one time cost as you assert, I'll never be able to remember which
> category Terminal got stuck in and I'll have to guess and hunt for it each
> time.
This is totally unconvincing. Even if you use an app only once half a year, I
am pretty sure you would remember it the second time, or use one of the other
means to get to the app, like search.
To me at least, it is obvious that categories can be implemented along side
search and the flat list and even a manual menu. But having only a flat list
and search and manual Be menu like we have now would be very disappointing for
me. It's no solution at all, to an annoying problem.
Best regards,
-Stephan
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