I'm in Sydney, Phil. I should have remembered. No wonder you got hit for the 6 letter word.. Also, I wasn't angered or offended by the word "brainwashed" -- it was amusing. I'm not surprised that you and Marc consider me as brainwashed -- and vice versa. But isn't that what deception implies? One or other party is sincere and almost right. But a miss is a miss? The tragedy of deception is that the victim sincerely believes that he is correct -- but isn't? The action of brainwashing does not necessarily imply deception. Its a normal method of instruction by those who honestly know the truth to those who don't. Thats how I learned the abc. It can be used for good or evil. Like you say, vica versa! But most people in the faith business are sincere, rightly or wrongly.. All victims? It's understandable that Paul wonders at the conflict amongst the different groups who share the same Bible. I'd respond to Paul but I think he's having a dig at us and probably isn't interested in an answer. Am I right Paul? I never like to miss an opportunity.. He's welcome.. John On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 7:58 PM, philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: On second thoughts, Paul, though I am reluctant to print during my happy hour, and this has been a four hour binge, I was nevertheless inspired to make a comment immediately. Your question is exactly the same in principle, as that thrown at Jesus on the Cross.. "If you are God, then deliver yourself from the cross and we will believe you..." Now how far do you think christianity upon which the calandar you use today was based , would have lasted if He had done that, and came down off the cross? He did better... He rose from the dead as promised, on Sunday, your first day of the week, before many and enough witnesses.. That is what started it. Philip. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Deema To: Geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 6:13 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Zeitgeist : Jesus-Christ assumed to be a false God Greetings all I usually pass over the theology stuff but this one seems tailor made for me. We are told God not only exists but is Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent. You'd think that He would be capable of protecting Himself from the efforts of His detractors but it seems that this is not so since the only way these detractors come to grief is if His followers visit harm upon them. Oddly, many of these detractors claim also to be His followers. One would think this OOO God would have been able to communicate His needs unambiguously to His creatures so that they would know, and could demonstrate unequivocally, who was a detractor and who a follower. Paul D Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com