[access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes

I would only consider moving across to WindowEyes if the rest of the
world did it first. I want a decent online support setup. 

I suspect lots of other people feel the same. It's just too big a jump
unless lots more people jump first. JAWS are too engrained in blind
culture at present. 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Dave Taylor
Sent: 12 May 2010 10:34
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes

\Or of course in Win 7 you can just start typing magnifier until it
comes up! Much easier way really! Remember the edit field is your
friend!


-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of chris hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:35 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes

1. Windows+u.
2. Tab to start magnifier button.
3. Read the help for usage on Magnifier.



Chris Hallsworth
E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: chrishallsworth7266
Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40

On 11/05/2010 22:32, Eleanor Burke wrote:
> Thanks Chris, I do have Windows 7 also.  How does one bring up the 
> magnification in Windows 7. It is on my laptop. Does it toggle on and
off?
>
> Eleanor
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris hallsworth"
> <christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:20 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
>
>
>> Eleanor if you have Windows 7 there is full screen magnification free

>> of charge. It's part of the Magnifier program found in Ease of Access

>> Centre. If this is on your XP machine then I apologize for the 
>> perhaps useless information.
>>
>>
>> Chris Hallsworth
>> E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Skype: chrishallsworth7266
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
>>
>> On 11/05/2010 22:17, Eleanor Burke wrote:
>>> Worth thinking about then Chris but I am more on the look out for 
>>> say nVDA and another magnification rather than using part Supernova 
>>> as I might as well go ahead and use the speech then too *smile*. I 
>>> have done another upgrade on Supernova tonight so maybe all will be 
>>> well actually, no longer having those terrible crashing out problems

>>> I was having on Outlook Express which were very strange and not on
other applications.
>>>
>>> Eleanor
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris hallsworth"
>>> <christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:11 PM
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
>>>
>>>
>>>> Suppose Eleanor that you could use NVDA, turn the speech off on 
>>>> SuperNova and just rely on the magnification. I can't see it 
>>>> causing major problems whatsoever, as NVDA doesn't install any
drivers.
>>>> Unfortunately I have used up my student allowance, so can't upgrade

>>>> to JAWS pro with that. Sorry my friend.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris Hallsworth
>>>> E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Skype: chrishallsworth7266
>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
>>>>
>>>> On 11/05/2010 22:06, Eleanor Burke wrote:
>>>>> That was in my opinion Chris, brilliant contribution. I had noted 
>>>>> before that you were using NVDA and spoke so highly of it. I would

>>>>> be really interested in trying it out if there was a screen 
>>>>> magnification that worked with it. I am surprised that you are 
>>>>> unable to upgrade to Jaws Pro with the student allowance for 
>>>>> equipment or perhaps you have used up your allowance. I am not 
>>>>> wishing to enter into your personal situation, only am aware of a 
>>>>> Disabled Student Allowance for equipment.
>>>>> I have been very disappointed that I cannot run Jaws and 
>>>>> Supernova, on the one computer, no, I donot mean at once but only 
>>>>> one wins out sadly which means that I have now chosen to go back 
>>>>> to Supernova rather than Jaws and Magic. I have never given Window

>>>>> Eyes a go and again would be interested but have got so used to 
>>>>> replying on magnification too, really want something that is as 
>>>>> powerful as Supernova magnification to try alongside another 
>>>>> speech screen reader.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris hallsworth"
>>>>> <christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:05 PM
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow, what an interesting thread this is turning out to be Barry.
>>>>>> Although I have got a JAWS license, I have only authorized it on 
>>>>>> my Netbook running Windows 7 Starter. I used to have a license on

>>>>>> my laptop, which was running Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit, but 
>>>>>> have decided, thanks to my university, to upgrade to 
>>>>>> Professional, but not
>>>>>> 64 bit. I decided to go back to 32 bit, only because some of my 
>>>>>> favourite applications, like Winamp, work better on this
platform.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> reason I thank university is because I got a rare offer; a free 
>>>>>> product key for Windows 7 Professional. I'm absolutely loving 
>>>>>> this edition of Windows 7. Features like Windows XP Mode and 
>>>>>> hosting Remote Desktop sessions grabbed it for me. As I hope to 
>>>>>> qualify as a professional technician during the summer holidays I

>>>>>> felt this edition was more appropriate for me. Anyway, back to my

>>>>>> screen readers. I am only authorized for JAWS Standard, and right

>>>>>> now cannot afford to upgrade to JAWS Professional. That's no big 
>>>>>> deal for me. Over time I have learnt to acquaint with the free 
>>>>>> screen reader NVDA and a demo version of Window-Eyes, which I 
>>>>>> only use for testing purposes. As for JAWS, I did install JAWS 11

>>>>>> as a 40 minute demo, but as I loved NVDA and like Window-Eyes I 
>>>>>> decided to completely throw away JAWS and only use JAWS on my 
>>>>>> netbook. I use NVDA full time right now, and, despite it's free 
>>>>>> it's very stable, more so than JAWS. I will, however, still use 
>>>>>> JAWS, but only to log into somebody's machine through JAWS Tandem

>>>>>> or use applications like Microsoft Access to which NVDA support 
>>>>>> hasn't been, and probably never will be, implemented. This I sure

>>>>>> understand, but so long as I can get the work done with NVDA, 
>>>>>> like browsing the web, manage my mail, listen to and manage my 
>>>>>> media, I'm happy.
>>>>>> Please ensure that I am in no way bashing the product. These are 
>>>>>> just my own personal experiences and right now it's all going 
>>>>>> well with few problems. In the future I may buy Window-Eyes 
>>>>>> through their lease to own program, but am not sure as of this 
>>>>>> time. The way things are going with NVDA to me will possibly 
>>>>>> replace the commercial offerings for individual consumers like 
>>>>>> myself. So might just stick with NVDA and only NVDA, and only use

>>>>>> JAWS for the above.
>>>>>> Have a good day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Hallsworth
>>>>>> E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Skype: chrishallsworth7266
>>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/05/2010 12:16, Barry Toner wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I started writing this late last night and ran out of steam. I 
>>>>>>> posted it to the GWMICRO-INFO list under the thread of I've 
>>>>>>> Something To Say.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not the best piece I've ever written but I wanted to share 
>>>>>>> my experiences with you all as a long-term JAWS user.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Messege Starts
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> " I can also chime in on this thread with a personal tale.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been using Window Eyes on and off for around 6 years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I lost my sight in an accident when I was18 years old. I 
>>>>>>> frustrated myself with Hal for about 2 years and then I found 
>>>>>>> JAWS. Whilst it did not replace being able to use Windows with 
>>>>>>> sight it was a breath of fresh air compared to Hal 4.2. 
>>>>>>> Especially when it came to surfing the Internet. This would have

>>>>>>> been JAWS 3.7 I started with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've watched the decline of JAWS over the years in terms of 
>>>>>>> problems not being fixed, new ones being introduced and 
>>>>>>> generally allot of half-baked product development going through 
>>>>>>> out onto the market. Not to mention as I see them very fluffy 
>>>>>>> plug ins and the nightmare that has always existed JAWS 
>>>>>>> licensing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Despite these failings I was not prepared to move outside of my 
>>>>>>> comfort zone. Even at the time when my peers where doing so and 
>>>>>>> I would have most benefited from their support and vice versa.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In saying this I completed two Computer Science Degrees using
JAWS.
>>>>>>> Though
>>>>>>> having learnt what I have in the past weeks things just as a 
>>>>>>> fact would have been allot easier with Window Eyes. What's that 
>>>>>>> old saying though?
>>>>>>> About
>>>>>>> heinsight being twenty twenty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just over three weeks back I decided I wanted to learn to use 
>>>>>>> Window Eyes.
>>>>>>> I didn't' say too much to friends who would only think that we'd

>>>>>>> been there before. When they tried to get me to see the light, 
>>>>>>> so to speak.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I sat down and thought how best to approach Window Eyes this
time.
>>>>>>> Something that would be different from previous half-hearted 
>>>>>>> attempts to give the product a fair go.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, I decided I would use Window Eyes and no other screen reader

>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> 1 full
>>>>>>> week. No matter what task I needed to do on the computer. I made

>>>>>>> a commitment despite my tasks priority to use Window Eyes. I was

>>>>>>> determined to learn how to do it with Window Eyes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was allot harder than it may sound. Especially as I'm 
>>>>>>> really not that much of a committed person when it comes to 
>>>>>>> Window Eyes. Or rather I wasn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I unloaded JAWS and installed Win Eyes v7.11 onto my Windows 
>>>>>>> 7 32Bit Desktop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I really needed to make this a genuine attempt. I decided to 
>>>>>>> make it a social experiment instead of a hardcore, I'm going to 
>>>>>>> do this and if I go back to JAWS I've failed. So I announced on 
>>>>>>> my twitter and Face Book feeds what I was going to do. I then 
>>>>>>> sent updates several times a day including @gwmicro in the 
>>>>>>> thread of the good, bad and ugly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me tell you the language I through at the computer for the 
>>>>>>> first three days was disgraceful! But when I learned how to use 
>>>>>>> the Mouse Keys, started to read sections of the excellently 
>>>>>>> layed out manual, joined this list and discovered Script Central

>>>>>>> I started to get a bit excited.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of my main frustrations was the amount of times v7.11 would 
>>>>>>> do odd things. By this I mean it would clip words in Outlook 
>>>>>>> 2K7. Scripts would crash, Window Eyes would crash if set to load

>>>>>>> upon log-in. I discovered that Window Eyes wasn't as infallible 
>>>>>>> as the fan boys and girls made it out to be. Oh yes and I got a 
>>>>>>> healthy taster that no doubt End_users I've supported as a 
>>>>>>> Systems Engingeer have gotten from me a time or too.
>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>> of, "uh that's weird" "It doesnt' do it on my machine like
that".
>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>> maybe true but it's not a helpful response!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So for me it's not been an experience of "The most stable Screen

>>>>>>> Reader".
>>>>>>> JAWS for me still holds that trophy on my system. Well, it would

>>>>>>> if it was still installed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's been over three weeks and I've not went back despite user 
>>>>>>> error problems and bugs with Window Eyes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, it is fair to say that a new user of a product will often 
>>>>>>> make mistakes through just not knowing. I'm not exceempt from 
>>>>>>> this. However, there's allot going on in a person learning a new

>>>>>>> thing. Whither that is a computer program, folding lawndry etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So why might you ask despite the problems I had and in some 
>>>>>>> cases like the clipping words didn't' I just do the easy thing 
>>>>>>> and switch back?
>>>>>>> Simple,
>>>>>>> I'd decided I'd rather put up with some problems that can either

>>>>>>> be worked round or ignored until they are either fixed or I'm 
>>>>>>> told of something I'm not doing to get Window Eyes to do what I 
>>>>>>> want. In doing so I get the wonderful functionality and fresh 
>>>>>>> approach Window Eyes has given to my computing. This compared to

>>>>>>> the stale product that did, serve me well for a time but has 
>>>>>>> frankly become a bit of a farse in comparison. I.E.
>>>>>>> JAWS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I used to believe that JAWS and Window Eyes both had their 
>>>>>>> place. I believed this kept me nutral and made me unlike The 
>>>>>>> Zellots, (as I saw them at the time), who sat in each camp 
>>>>>>> throwing muck back and forth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find myself looking on at other people in my life who are 
>>>>>>> using JAWS and struggling and want to cry out to them. Look, you

>>>>>>> dont' need to carry on with those bad habits you learned with 
>>>>>>> JAWS. Tabbing all over the screen and not using keystrokes in 
>>>>>>> say,and Installer Wizard of alt n for Next.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's incredible the amount of JAWS users who are not aware of 
>>>>>>> how to use the JAWS Cursor. that's a real bug bear of mine now 
>>>>>>> having used Window Eyes mouse Keys. the fact you need to 
>>>>>>> completely switch to a different mode then back to the PC Cursor

>>>>>>> mode. no wonder people get confused!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I could detail my own feelings on a lengthy list of JAWS short 
>>>>>>> comings not to mention the iresponsable way Freedom Scientific 
>>>>>>> treat customers.
>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>> only be preaching to the crowd and end up falling into the camp 
>>>>>>> of "My ones bigger than yours".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd like to think i can lead by example to people I know that 
>>>>>>> use JAWS and I see struggling with the mindset it forces on 
>>>>>>> people of the old and comfortable. By letting them see my 
>>>>>>> completley fresh approach and no longer fear of trying something

>>>>>>> new just for fun. Sadly though I'm a geek and I believe most of 
>>>>>>> my friends will discount what I'm doing as down to that.
>>>>>>> rather than, "I could be having that much fun and productivity 
>>>>>>> as well".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trailing off a bit as I need to get out before the rain starts 
>>>>>>> here!"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Barry Toner
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BCS Belfast Branch
>>>>>>> YPG Representative& Disability Group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.bcs.org/server.php?show=nav.10444
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Contact me @
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Professional: barry.toner@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Personal Email: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MSN/Live: djpaddy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AIM/FB: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TWITTER: dj_paddy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Skype: djpaddy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mobile: (UK) +44 (0) 7921 611 253
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of 
>>>>>>> virus signature database 5104 (20100511) __________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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