[access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes

Hi Steve.

Thanks, I haven't kept up with recent developments of System Access so wasn't sure.

Thanks for correcting me on this.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:18 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes


Hi Ibrahim,

Actually you are wrong. System Access supports a limited number of Braille
displays that work using the HID interface, such as Handytech, but not as
much as other screen readers.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Ibrahim Gucukoglu
Sent: Tuesday 11 May 2010 15:06
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes

Hi Saqib.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think system access supports
braille displays.  It only provides speech and magnification options.

All the best, Ibrahim.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Saqib" <saqib@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 3:00 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes


Hi Jacky. Wouldn't System Access be any good for you. I know that they are

the poor relations of the three screen readers but SA is very good for the

price and caters for all my computer needs successfully.
Original message:
Hi Barry

As you have initiated the thread on this list, I will just echo my
personal frustrations and say that I too am about to defect full-time to
Window-Eyes for exactly the same reasons as yourself. I would go further

by saying that I know at least three others who are doing likewise.

As you know, I am leaving Sight and Sound next week as an employee, and I

have no animosity towards my employers as I have enjoyed two very happy
years with them.  But, as an end user, and a JAWS person for 11 years, I
feel it is time to move because I am also against the practices of
Freedom Scientific, the bugginess of the program itself, and its
licensing gravy train.  There just comes a point when you feel enough is
enough!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I'll remember them when I too hurl
bad language at my PC, (smile).


Jackie Cairns
Braille Specialist
Email: jackie.cairns@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sight and Sound Technology Ltd
Welton House North Wing
Summerhouse Road
Moulton Park
Northampton
NN3 6WD
Tel: 01604 798024
Mob: 07887 883815
www.sightandsound.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Barry Toner
Sent: 11 May 2010 12:17
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] My experiences moving over to Window Eyes

Hi all,

I started writing this late last night and ran out of steam. I posted it

to the GWMICRO-INFO list under the thread of I've Something To Say.

It's not the best piece I've ever written but I wanted to share my
experiences with you all as a long-term JAWS user.

Messege Starts

" I can also chime in on this thread with a personal tale.

I have been using Window Eyes on and off for around 6 years.

I lost my sight in an accident when I was18 years old.  I frustrated
myself with Hal for about 2 years and then I found JAWS.  Whilst it did
not replace being able to use Windows with sight it was a breath of fresh

air compared to Hal 4.2.  Especially when it came to surfing the
Internet.  This would have been JAWS 3.7 I started with.

I've watched the decline of JAWS over the years in terms of problems not
being fixed, new ones being introduced and generally allot of half-baked
product development going through out onto the market. Not to mention as

I see them very fluffy plug ins and the nightmare that has always existed

JAWS licensing.

Despite these failings I was not prepared to move outside of my comfort
zone.  Even at the time when my peers where doing so and I would have
most benefited from their support and vice versa.

In saying this I completed two Computer Science Degrees using JAWS.
Though having learnt what I have in the past weeks things just as a fact
would have been allot easier with Window Eyes.  What's that old saying
though?  About heinsight being twenty twenty.

Just over three weeks back I decided I wanted to learn to use Window
Eyes.
I didn't' say too much to friends who would only think that we'd been
there before.  When they tried to get me to see the light, so to speak.

I sat down and thought how best to approach Window Eyes this time.
Something that would be different from previous half-hearted attempts to
give the product a fair go.

So, I decided I would use Window Eyes and no other screen reader for 1
full week. No matter what task I needed to do on the computer. I made a

commitment despite my tasks priority to use Window Eyes.  I was
determined to learn how to do it with Window Eyes.

This was allot harder than it may sound.  Especially as I'm really not
that much of a committed person when it comes to Window Eyes.  Or rather
I wasn't.

So I unloaded JAWS and installed Win Eyes v7.11 onto my Windows 7 32Bit
Desktop.

I really needed to make this a genuine attempt.  I decided to make it a
social experiment instead of a hardcore, I'm going to do this and if I go

back to JAWS I've failed.  So I announced on my twitter and Face Book
feeds what I was going to do.  I then sent updates several times a day
including @gwmicro in the thread of the good, bad and ugly.


Let me tell you the language I through at the computer for the first
three days was disgraceful!  But when I learned how to use the Mouse
Keys, started to read sections of the excellently layed out manual,
joined this list and discovered Script Central I started to get a  bit
excited.

One of my main frustrations was the amount of times v7.11 would do odd
things.  By this I mean it would clip words in Outlook 2K7.  Scripts
would crash, Window Eyes would crash if set to load upon log-in.  I
discovered that Window Eyes wasn't as infallible as the fan boys and
girls made it out to be. Oh yes and I got a healthy taster that no doubt

End_users I've supported as a Systems Engingeer have gotten from me a
time or too. That of, "uh that's weird" "It doesnt' do it on my machine

like that".  This maybe true but it's not a helpful response!

So for me it's not been an experience of "The most stable Screen Reader".
JAWS for me still holds that trophy on my system.  Well, it would if it
was still installed.

It's been over three weeks and I've not went back despite user error
problems and bugs with Window Eyes.

Now, it is fair to say that a new user of a product will often make
mistakes through just not knowing. I'm not exceempt from this. However,

there's allot going on in a person learning a new thing. Whither that is

a computer program, folding lawndry etc.

So why might you ask despite the problems I had and in some cases like
the clipping words didn't' I just do the easy thing and switch back?
Simple, I'd decided I'd rather put up with some problems that can either
be worked round or ignored until they are either fixed or I'm told of
something I'm not doing to get Window Eyes to do what I want.  In doing
so I get the wonderful functionality and fresh approach Window Eyes has
given to my computing.  This compared to the stale product that did,
serve me well for a time but has frankly become a bit of a farse in
comparison.  I.E. JAWS.

I used to believe that JAWS and Window Eyes both had their place.  I
believed this kept me nutral and made me unlike The Zellots, (as I saw
them at the time), who sat in each camp throwing muck back and forth.

I find myself looking on at other people in my life who are using JAWS
and struggling and want to cry out to them.  Look, you dont' need to
carry on with those bad habits you learned with JAWS.  Tabbing all over
the screen and not using keystrokes in say,and Installer Wizard of alt n
for Next.

It's incredible the amount of JAWS users who are not aware of how to use
the JAWS Cursor.  that's a real bug bear of mine now having used Window
Eyes mouse Keys.  the fact you need to completely switch to a different
mode then back to the PC Cursor mode.  no wonder people get confused!

I could detail my own feelings on a lengthy list of JAWS short comings
not to mention the iresponsable way Freedom Scientific treat customers.
I'd only be preaching to the crowd and end up falling into the camp of
"My ones bigger than yours".

I'd like to think i can lead by example to people I know that use JAWS
and I see struggling with the mindset it forces on people of the old and
comfortable.  By letting them see my completley fresh approach and no
longer fear of trying something new just for fun.  Sadly though I'm a
geek and I believe most of my friends will discount what I'm doing as
down to that.
rather than, "I could be having that much fun and productivity as well".

Trailing off a bit as I need to get out before the rain starts here!"

Barry Toner


BCS Belfast Branch
YPG Representative & Disability Group

http://www.bcs.org/server.php?show=nav.10444



Contact me @

Professional: barry.toner@xxxxxxxxxx

Personal Email: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


MSN/Live: djpaddy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

AIM/FB:  barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

TWITTER: dj_paddy

Skype: djpaddy

Mobile: (UK) +44 (0) 7921 611 253




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