[access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
- From: "Dave Taylor" <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:33:44 +0100
\Or of course in Win 7 you can just start typing magnifier until it comes
up! Much easier way really! Remember the edit field is your friend!
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
chris hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:35 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
1. Windows+u.
2. Tab to start magnifier button.
3. Read the help for usage on Magnifier.
Chris Hallsworth
E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: chrishallsworth7266
Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
On 11/05/2010 22:32, Eleanor Burke wrote:
> Thanks Chris, I do have Windows 7 also. How does one bring up the
> magnification in Windows 7. It is on my laptop. Does it toggle on and off?
>
> Eleanor
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris hallsworth"
> <christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:20 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
>
>
>> Eleanor if you have Windows 7 there is full screen magnification free
>> of charge. It's part of the Magnifier program found in Ease of Access
>> Centre. If this is on your XP machine then I apologize for the perhaps
>> useless information.
>>
>>
>> Chris Hallsworth
>> E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Skype: chrishallsworth7266
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
>>
>> On 11/05/2010 22:17, Eleanor Burke wrote:
>>> Worth thinking about then Chris but I am more on the look out for say
>>> nVDA and another magnification rather than using part Supernova as I
>>> might as well go ahead and use the speech then too *smile*. I have done
>>> another upgrade on Supernova tonight so maybe all will be well actually,
>>> no longer having those terrible crashing out problems I was having on
>>> Outlook Express which were very strange and not on other applications.
>>>
>>> Eleanor
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris hallsworth"
>>> <christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:11 PM
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
>>>
>>>
>>>> Suppose Eleanor that you could use NVDA, turn the speech off on
>>>> SuperNova and just rely on the magnification. I can't see it causing
>>>> major problems whatsoever, as NVDA doesn't install any drivers.
>>>> Unfortunately I have used up my student allowance, so can't upgrade to
>>>> JAWS pro with that. Sorry my friend.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris Hallsworth
>>>> E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Skype: chrishallsworth7266
>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
>>>>
>>>> On 11/05/2010 22:06, Eleanor Burke wrote:
>>>>> That was in my opinion Chris, brilliant contribution. I had noted
>>>>> before that you were using NVDA and spoke so highly of it. I would be
>>>>> really interested in trying it out if there was a screen magnification
>>>>> that worked with it. I am surprised that you are unable to upgrade to
>>>>> Jaws Pro with the student allowance for equipment or perhaps you have
>>>>> used up your allowance. I am not wishing to enter into your personal
>>>>> situation, only am aware of a Disabled Student Allowance for
>>>>> equipment.
>>>>> I have been very disappointed that I cannot run Jaws and Supernova, on
>>>>> the one computer, no, I donot mean at once but only one wins out sadly
>>>>> which means that I have now chosen to go back to Supernova rather than
>>>>> Jaws and Magic. I have never given Window Eyes a go and again would be
>>>>> interested but have got so used to replying on magnification too,
>>>>> really
>>>>> want something that is as powerful as Supernova magnification to try
>>>>> alongside another speech screen reader.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris hallsworth"
>>>>> <christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:05 PM
>>>>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow, what an interesting thread this is turning out to be Barry.
>>>>>> Although I have got a JAWS license, I have only authorized it on my
>>>>>> Netbook running Windows 7 Starter. I used to have a license on my
>>>>>> laptop, which was running Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit, but have
>>>>>> decided, thanks to my university, to upgrade to Professional, but not
>>>>>> 64 bit. I decided to go back to 32 bit, only because some of my
>>>>>> favourite applications, like Winamp, work better on this platform.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> reason I thank university is because I got a rare offer; a free
>>>>>> product key for Windows 7 Professional. I'm absolutely loving this
>>>>>> edition of Windows 7. Features like Windows XP Mode and hosting
>>>>>> Remote
>>>>>> Desktop sessions grabbed it for me. As I hope to qualify as a
>>>>>> professional technician during the summer holidays I felt this
>>>>>> edition
>>>>>> was more appropriate for me. Anyway, back to my screen readers. I am
>>>>>> only authorized for JAWS Standard, and right now cannot afford to
>>>>>> upgrade to JAWS Professional. That's no big deal for me. Over time I
>>>>>> have learnt to acquaint with the free screen reader NVDA and a demo
>>>>>> version of Window-Eyes, which I only use for testing purposes. As for
>>>>>> JAWS, I did install JAWS 11 as a 40 minute demo, but as I loved NVDA
>>>>>> and like Window-Eyes I decided to completely throw away JAWS and only
>>>>>> use JAWS on my netbook. I use NVDA full time right now, and, despite
>>>>>> it's free it's very stable, more so than JAWS. I will, however, still
>>>>>> use JAWS, but only to log into somebody's machine through JAWS Tandem
>>>>>> or use applications like Microsoft Access to which NVDA support
>>>>>> hasn't
>>>>>> been, and probably never will be, implemented. This I sure
>>>>>> understand,
>>>>>> but so long as I can get the work done with NVDA, like browsing the
>>>>>> web, manage my mail, listen to and manage my media, I'm happy.
>>>>>> Please ensure that I am in no way bashing the product. These are just
>>>>>> my own personal experiences and right now it's all going well with
>>>>>> few
>>>>>> problems. In the future I may buy Window-Eyes through their lease to
>>>>>> own program, but am not sure as of this time. The way things are
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> with NVDA to me will possibly replace the commercial offerings for
>>>>>> individual consumers like myself. So might just stick with NVDA and
>>>>>> only NVDA, and only use JAWS for the above.
>>>>>> Have a good day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Hallsworth
>>>>>> E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Skype: chrishallsworth7266
>>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/05/2010 12:16, Barry Toner wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I started writing this late last night and ran out of steam. I
>>>>>>> posted
>>>>>>> it to
>>>>>>> the GWMICRO-INFO list under the thread of I've Something To Say.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not the best piece I've ever written but I wanted to share my
>>>>>>> experiences with you all as a long-term JAWS user.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Messege Starts
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> " I can also chime in on this thread with a personal tale.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been using Window Eyes on and off for around 6 years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I lost my sight in an accident when I was18 years old. I frustrated
>>>>>>> myself
>>>>>>> with Hal for about 2 years and then I found JAWS. Whilst it did not
>>>>>>> replace
>>>>>>> being able to use Windows with sight it was a breath of fresh air
>>>>>>> compared
>>>>>>> to Hal 4.2. Especially when it came to surfing the Internet. This
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> have been JAWS 3.7 I started with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've watched the decline of JAWS over the years in terms of
>>>>>>> problems not
>>>>>>> being fixed, new ones being introduced and generally allot of
>>>>>>> half-baked
>>>>>>> product development going through out onto the market. Not to
>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>> as I
>>>>>>> see them very fluffy plug ins and the nightmare that has always
>>>>>>> existed JAWS
>>>>>>> licensing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Despite these failings I was not prepared to move outside of my
>>>>>>> comfort
>>>>>>> zone. Even at the time when my peers where doing so and I would have
>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>> benefited from their support and vice versa.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In saying this I completed two Computer Science Degrees using JAWS.
>>>>>>> Though
>>>>>>> having learnt what I have in the past weeks things just as a fact
>>>>>>> would have
>>>>>>> been allot easier with Window Eyes. What's that old saying though?
>>>>>>> About
>>>>>>> heinsight being twenty twenty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just over three weeks back I decided I wanted to learn to use Window
>>>>>>> Eyes.
>>>>>>> I didn’t' say too much to friends who would only think that we'd
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> before. When they tried to get me to see the light, so to speak.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I sat down and thought how best to approach Window Eyes this time.
>>>>>>> Something that would be different from previous half-hearted
>>>>>>> attempts to
>>>>>>> give the product a fair go.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, I decided I would use Window Eyes and no other screen reader for
>>>>>>> 1 full
>>>>>>> week. No matter what task I needed to do on the computer. I made a
>>>>>>> commitment despite my tasks priority to use Window Eyes. I was
>>>>>>> determined
>>>>>>> to learn how to do it with Window Eyes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was allot harder than it may sound. Especially as I'm really
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> much of a committed person when it comes to Window Eyes. Or rather I
>>>>>>> wasn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I unloaded JAWS and installed Win Eyes v7.11 onto my Windows 7
>>>>>>> 32Bit
>>>>>>> Desktop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I really needed to make this a genuine attempt. I decided to make
>>>>>>> it a
>>>>>>> social experiment instead of a hardcore, I'm going to do this and if
>>>>>>> I go
>>>>>>> back to JAWS I've failed. So I announced on my twitter and Face Book
>>>>>>> feeds
>>>>>>> what I was going to do. I then sent updates several times a day
>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>> @gwmicro in the thread of the good, bad and ugly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me tell you the language I through at the computer for the first
>>>>>>> three
>>>>>>> days was disgraceful! But when I learned how to use the Mouse Keys,
>>>>>>> started
>>>>>>> to read sections of the excellently layed out manual, joined this
>>>>>>> list and
>>>>>>> discovered Script Central I started to get a bit excited.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of my main frustrations was the amount of times v7.11 would
>>>>>>> do odd
>>>>>>> things. By this I mean it would clip words in Outlook 2K7. Scripts
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> crash, Window Eyes would crash if set to load upon log-in. I
>>>>>>> discovered
>>>>>>> that Window Eyes wasn't as infallible as the fan boys and girls made
>>>>>>> it out
>>>>>>> to be. Oh yes and I got a healthy taster that no doubt End_users
>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>> supported as a Systems Engingeer have gotten from me a time or too.
>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>> of, "uh that's weird" "It doesnt' do it on my machine like that".
>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>> maybe true but it's not a helpful response!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So for me it's not been an experience of "The most stable Screen
>>>>>>> Reader".
>>>>>>> JAWS for me still holds that trophy on my system. Well, it would if
>>>>>>> it was
>>>>>>> still installed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's been over three weeks and I've not went back despite user error
>>>>>>> problems and bugs with Window Eyes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, it is fair to say that a new user of a product will often make
>>>>>>> mistakes
>>>>>>> through just not knowing. I'm not exceempt from this. However,
>>>>>>> there's
>>>>>>> allot going on in a person learning a new thing. Whither that is a
>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>> program, folding lawndry etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So why might you ask despite the problems I had and in some cases
>>>>>>> like the
>>>>>>> clipping words didn’t' I just do the easy thing and switch back?
>>>>>>> Simple,
>>>>>>> I'd decided I'd rather put up with some problems that can either be
>>>>>>> worked
>>>>>>> round or ignored until they are either fixed or I'm told of
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> not doing to get Window Eyes to do what I want. In doing so I get
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> wonderful functionality and fresh approach Window Eyes has given
>>>>>>> to my
>>>>>>> computing. This compared to the stale product that did, serve me
>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>> time but has frankly become a bit of a farse in comparison. I.E.
>>>>>>> JAWS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I used to believe that JAWS and Window Eyes both had their place. I
>>>>>>> believed this kept me nutral and made me unlike The Zellots, (as I
>>>>>>> saw them
>>>>>>> at the time), who sat in each camp throwing muck back and forth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find myself looking on at other people in my life who are using
>>>>>>> JAWS and
>>>>>>> struggling and want to cry out to them. Look, you dont' need to
>>>>>>> carry on
>>>>>>> with those bad habits you learned with JAWS. Tabbing all over the
>>>>>>> screen
>>>>>>> and not using keystrokes in say,and Installer Wizard of alt n for
>>>>>>> Next.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's incredible the amount of JAWS users who are not aware of how to
>>>>>>> use the
>>>>>>> JAWS Cursor. that's a real bug bear of mine now having used Window
>>>>>>> Eyes
>>>>>>> mouse Keys. the fact you need to completely switch to a different
>>>>>>> mode then
>>>>>>> back to the PC Cursor mode. no wonder people get confused!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I could detail my own feelings on a lengthy list of JAWS short
>>>>>>> comings not
>>>>>>> to mention the iresponsable way Freedom Scientific treat customers.
>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>> only be preaching to the crowd and end up falling into the camp of
>>>>>>> "My ones
>>>>>>> bigger than yours".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd like to think i can lead by example to people I know that use
>>>>>>> JAWS and I
>>>>>>> see struggling with the mindset it forces on people of the old and
>>>>>>> comfortable. By letting them see my completley fresh approach and no
>>>>>>> longer
>>>>>>> fear of trying something new just for fun. Sadly though I'm a geek
>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>> believe most of my friends will discount what I'm doing as down to
>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>> rather than, "I could be having that much fun and productivity as
>>>>>>> well".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trailing off a bit as I need to get out before the rain starts
>>>>>>> here!"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Barry Toner
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BCS Belfast Branch
>>>>>>> YPG Representative& Disability Group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.bcs.org/server.php?show=nav.10444
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Contact me @
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Professional: barry.toner@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Personal Email: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MSN/Live: djpaddy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AIM/FB: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TWITTER: dj_paddy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Skype: djpaddy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mobile: (UK) +44 (0) 7921 611 253
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>>>>> signature
>>>>>>> database 5104 (20100511) __________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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