[access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 22:24:47 +0100
Hi Chris,
That wouldn't work, because the mag of Supernova wouldn't follow the speech.
That could get confusing.
All the best
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
chris hallsworth
Sent: Tuesday 11 May 2010 22:11
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
Suppose Eleanor that you could use NVDA, turn the speech off on
SuperNova and just rely on the magnification. I can't see it causing
major problems whatsoever, as NVDA doesn't install any drivers.
Unfortunately I have used up my student allowance, so can't upgrade to
JAWS pro with that. Sorry my friend.
Chris Hallsworth
E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: chrishallsworth7266
Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
On 11/05/2010 22:06, Eleanor Burke wrote:
> That was in my opinion Chris, brilliant contribution. I had noted
> before that you were using NVDA and spoke so highly of it. I would be
> really interested in trying it out if there was a screen magnification
> that worked with it. I am surprised that you are unable to upgrade to
> Jaws Pro with the student allowance for equipment or perhaps you have
> used up your allowance. I am not wishing to enter into your personal
> situation, only am aware of a Disabled Student Allowance for equipment.
> I have been very disappointed that I cannot run Jaws and Supernova, on
> the one computer, no, I donot mean at once but only one wins out sadly
> which means that I have now chosen to go back to Supernova rather than
> Jaws and Magic. I have never given Window Eyes a go and again would be
> interested but have got so used to replying on magnification too, really
> want something that is as powerful as Supernova magnification to try
> alongside another speech screen reader.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris hallsworth"
> <christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:05 PM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
>
>
>> Wow, what an interesting thread this is turning out to be Barry.
>> Although I have got a JAWS license, I have only authorized it on my
>> Netbook running Windows 7 Starter. I used to have a license on my
>> laptop, which was running Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit, but have
>> decided, thanks to my university, to upgrade to Professional, but not
>> 64 bit. I decided to go back to 32 bit, only because some of my
>> favourite applications, like Winamp, work better on this platform. The
>> reason I thank university is because I got a rare offer; a free
>> product key for Windows 7 Professional. I'm absolutely loving this
>> edition of Windows 7. Features like Windows XP Mode and hosting Remote
>> Desktop sessions grabbed it for me. As I hope to qualify as a
>> professional technician during the summer holidays I felt this edition
>> was more appropriate for me. Anyway, back to my screen readers. I am
>> only authorized for JAWS Standard, and right now cannot afford to
>> upgrade to JAWS Professional. That's no big deal for me. Over time I
>> have learnt to acquaint with the free screen reader NVDA and a demo
>> version of Window-Eyes, which I only use for testing purposes. As for
>> JAWS, I did install JAWS 11 as a 40 minute demo, but as I loved NVDA
>> and like Window-Eyes I decided to completely throw away JAWS and only
>> use JAWS on my netbook. I use NVDA full time right now, and, despite
>> it's free it's very stable, more so than JAWS. I will, however, still
>> use JAWS, but only to log into somebody's machine through JAWS Tandem
>> or use applications like Microsoft Access to which NVDA support hasn't
>> been, and probably never will be, implemented. This I sure understand,
>> but so long as I can get the work done with NVDA, like browsing the
>> web, manage my mail, listen to and manage my media, I'm happy.
>> Please ensure that I am in no way bashing the product. These are just
>> my own personal experiences and right now it's all going well with few
>> problems. In the future I may buy Window-Eyes through their lease to
>> own program, but am not sure as of this time. The way things are going
>> with NVDA to me will possibly replace the commercial offerings for
>> individual consumers like myself. So might just stick with NVDA and
>> only NVDA, and only use JAWS for the above.
>> Have a good day.
>>
>>
>> Chris Hallsworth
>> E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Skype: chrishallsworth7266
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40
>>
>> On 11/05/2010 12:16, Barry Toner wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I started writing this late last night and ran out of steam. I posted
>>> it to
>>> the GWMICRO-INFO list under the thread of I've Something To Say.
>>>
>>> It's not the best piece I've ever written but I wanted to share my
>>> experiences with you all as a long-term JAWS user.
>>>
>>> Messege Starts
>>>
>>> " I can also chime in on this thread with a personal tale.
>>>
>>> I have been using Window Eyes on and off for around 6 years.
>>>
>>> I lost my sight in an accident when I was18 years old. I frustrated
>>> myself
>>> with Hal for about 2 years and then I found JAWS. Whilst it did not
>>> replace
>>> being able to use Windows with sight it was a breath of fresh air
>>> compared
>>> to Hal 4.2. Especially when it came to surfing the Internet. This would
>>> have been JAWS 3.7 I started with.
>>>
>>> I've watched the decline of JAWS over the years in terms of problems not
>>> being fixed, new ones being introduced and generally allot of half-baked
>>> product development going through out onto the market. Not to mention
>>> as I
>>> see them very fluffy plug ins and the nightmare that has always
>>> existed JAWS
>>> licensing.
>>>
>>> Despite these failings I was not prepared to move outside of my comfort
>>> zone. Even at the time when my peers where doing so and I would have
>>> most
>>> benefited from their support and vice versa.
>>>
>>> In saying this I completed two Computer Science Degrees using JAWS.
>>> Though
>>> having learnt what I have in the past weeks things just as a fact
>>> would have
>>> been allot easier with Window Eyes. What's that old saying though? About
>>> heinsight being twenty twenty.
>>>
>>> Just over three weeks back I decided I wanted to learn to use Window
>>> Eyes.
>>> I didn't' say too much to friends who would only think that we'd been
>>> there
>>> before. When they tried to get me to see the light, so to speak.
>>>
>>> I sat down and thought how best to approach Window Eyes this time.
>>> Something that would be different from previous half-hearted attempts to
>>> give the product a fair go.
>>>
>>> So, I decided I would use Window Eyes and no other screen reader for
>>> 1 full
>>> week. No matter what task I needed to do on the computer. I made a
>>> commitment despite my tasks priority to use Window Eyes. I was
>>> determined
>>> to learn how to do it with Window Eyes.
>>>
>>> This was allot harder than it may sound. Especially as I'm really not
>>> that
>>> much of a committed person when it comes to Window Eyes. Or rather I
>>> wasn't.
>>>
>>> So I unloaded JAWS and installed Win Eyes v7.11 onto my Windows 7 32Bit
>>> Desktop.
>>>
>>> I really needed to make this a genuine attempt. I decided to make it a
>>> social experiment instead of a hardcore, I'm going to do this and if
>>> I go
>>> back to JAWS I've failed. So I announced on my twitter and Face Book
>>> feeds
>>> what I was going to do. I then sent updates several times a day
>>> including
>>> @gwmicro in the thread of the good, bad and ugly.
>>>
>>>
>>> Let me tell you the language I through at the computer for the first
>>> three
>>> days was disgraceful! But when I learned how to use the Mouse Keys,
>>> started
>>> to read sections of the excellently layed out manual, joined this
>>> list and
>>> discovered Script Central I started to get a bit excited.
>>>
>>> One of my main frustrations was the amount of times v7.11 would do odd
>>> things. By this I mean it would clip words in Outlook 2K7. Scripts would
>>> crash, Window Eyes would crash if set to load upon log-in. I discovered
>>> that Window Eyes wasn't as infallible as the fan boys and girls made
>>> it out
>>> to be. Oh yes and I got a healthy taster that no doubt End_users I've
>>> supported as a Systems Engingeer have gotten from me a time or too. That
>>> of, "uh that's weird" "It doesnt' do it on my machine like that". This
>>> maybe true but it's not a helpful response!
>>>
>>> So for me it's not been an experience of "The most stable Screen
>>> Reader".
>>> JAWS for me still holds that trophy on my system. Well, it would if
>>> it was
>>> still installed.
>>>
>>> It's been over three weeks and I've not went back despite user error
>>> problems and bugs with Window Eyes.
>>>
>>> Now, it is fair to say that a new user of a product will often make
>>> mistakes
>>> through just not knowing. I'm not exceempt from this. However, there's
>>> allot going on in a person learning a new thing. Whither that is a
>>> computer
>>> program, folding lawndry etc.
>>>
>>> So why might you ask despite the problems I had and in some cases
>>> like the
>>> clipping words didn't' I just do the easy thing and switch back? Simple,
>>> I'd decided I'd rather put up with some problems that can either be
>>> worked
>>> round or ignored until they are either fixed or I'm told of something
>>> I'm
>>> not doing to get Window Eyes to do what I want. In doing so I get the
>>> wonderful functionality and fresh approach Window Eyes has given to my
>>> computing. This compared to the stale product that did, serve me well
>>> for a
>>> time but has frankly become a bit of a farse in comparison. I.E. JAWS.
>>>
>>> I used to believe that JAWS and Window Eyes both had their place. I
>>> believed this kept me nutral and made me unlike The Zellots, (as I
>>> saw them
>>> at the time), who sat in each camp throwing muck back and forth.
>>>
>>> I find myself looking on at other people in my life who are using
>>> JAWS and
>>> struggling and want to cry out to them. Look, you dont' need to carry on
>>> with those bad habits you learned with JAWS. Tabbing all over the screen
>>> and not using keystrokes in say,and Installer Wizard of alt n for Next.
>>>
>>> It's incredible the amount of JAWS users who are not aware of how to
>>> use the
>>> JAWS Cursor. that's a real bug bear of mine now having used Window Eyes
>>> mouse Keys. the fact you need to completely switch to a different
>>> mode then
>>> back to the PC Cursor mode. no wonder people get confused!
>>>
>>> I could detail my own feelings on a lengthy list of JAWS short
>>> comings not
>>> to mention the iresponsable way Freedom Scientific treat customers. I'd
>>> only be preaching to the crowd and end up falling into the camp of
>>> "My ones
>>> bigger than yours".
>>>
>>> I'd like to think i can lead by example to people I know that use
>>> JAWS and I
>>> see struggling with the mindset it forces on people of the old and
>>> comfortable. By letting them see my completley fresh approach and no
>>> longer
>>> fear of trying something new just for fun. Sadly though I'm a geek and I
>>> believe most of my friends will discount what I'm doing as down to that.
>>> rather than, "I could be having that much fun and productivity as well".
>>>
>>> Trailing off a bit as I need to get out before the rain starts here!"
>>>
>>> Barry Toner
>>>
>>>
>>> BCS Belfast Branch
>>> YPG Representative& Disability Group
>>>
>>> http://www.bcs.org/server.php?show=nav.10444
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Contact me @
>>>
>>> Professional: barry.toner@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> Personal Email: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>> MSN/Live: djpaddy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> AIM/FB: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> TWITTER: dj_paddy
>>>
>>> Skype: djpaddy
>>>
>>> Mobile: (UK) +44 (0) 7921 611 253
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>> signature
>>> database 5104 (20100511) __________
>>>
>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
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