[access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes

Thanks Chris, I do have Windows 7 also. How does one bring up the magnification in Windows 7. It is on my laptop. Does it toggle on and off?


Eleanor
----- Original Message ----- From: "chris hallsworth" <christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:20 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes


Eleanor if you have Windows 7 there is full screen magnification free of charge. It's part of the Magnifier program found in Ease of Access Centre. If this is on your XP machine then I apologize for the perhaps useless information.


Chris Hallsworth
E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: chrishallsworth7266
Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40

On 11/05/2010 22:17, Eleanor Burke wrote:
Worth thinking about then Chris but I am more on the look out for say
nVDA and another magnification rather than using part Supernova as I
might as well go ahead and use the speech then too *smile*. I have done
another upgrade on Supernova tonight so maybe all will be well actually,
no longer having those terrible crashing out problems I was having on
Outlook Express which were very strange and not on other applications.

Eleanor
----- Original Message ----- From: "chris hallsworth"
<christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:11 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes


Suppose Eleanor that you could use NVDA, turn the speech off on
SuperNova and just rely on the magnification. I can't see it causing
major problems whatsoever, as NVDA doesn't install any drivers.
Unfortunately I have used up my student allowance, so can't upgrade to
JAWS pro with that. Sorry my friend.


Chris Hallsworth
E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: chrishallsworth7266
Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40

On 11/05/2010 22:06, Eleanor Burke wrote:
That was in my opinion Chris, brilliant contribution. I had noted
before that you were using NVDA and spoke so highly of it. I would be
really interested in trying it out if there was a screen magnification
that worked with it. I am surprised that you are unable to upgrade to
Jaws Pro with the student allowance for equipment or perhaps you have
used up your allowance. I am not wishing to enter into your personal
situation, only am aware of a Disabled Student Allowance for equipment.
I have been very disappointed that I cannot run Jaws and Supernova, on
the one computer, no, I donot mean at once but only one wins out sadly
which means that I have now chosen to go back to Supernova rather than
Jaws and Magic. I have never given Window Eyes a go and again would be
interested but have got so used to replying on magnification too, really
want something that is as powerful as Supernova magnification to try
alongside another speech screen reader.
----- Original Message ----- From: "chris hallsworth"
<christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:05 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes


Wow, what an interesting thread this is turning out to be Barry.
Although I have got a JAWS license, I have only authorized it on my
Netbook running Windows 7 Starter. I used to have a license on my
laptop, which was running Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit, but have
decided, thanks to my university, to upgrade to Professional, but not
64 bit. I decided to go back to 32 bit, only because some of my
favourite applications, like Winamp, work better on this platform. The
reason I thank university is because I got a rare offer; a free
product key for Windows 7 Professional. I'm absolutely loving this
edition of Windows 7. Features like Windows XP Mode and hosting Remote
Desktop sessions grabbed it for me. As I hope to qualify as a
professional technician during the summer holidays I felt this edition
was more appropriate for me. Anyway, back to my screen readers. I am
only authorized for JAWS Standard, and right now cannot afford to
upgrade to JAWS Professional. That's no big deal for me. Over time I
have learnt to acquaint with the free screen reader NVDA and a demo
version of Window-Eyes, which I only use for testing purposes. As for
JAWS, I did install JAWS 11 as a 40 minute demo, but as I loved NVDA
and like Window-Eyes I decided to completely throw away JAWS and only
use JAWS on my netbook. I use NVDA full time right now, and, despite
it's free it's very stable, more so than JAWS. I will, however, still
use JAWS, but only to log into somebody's machine through JAWS Tandem
or use applications like Microsoft Access to which NVDA support hasn't
been, and probably never will be, implemented. This I sure understand,
but so long as I can get the work done with NVDA, like browsing the
web, manage my mail, listen to and manage my media, I'm happy.
Please ensure that I am in no way bashing the product. These are just
my own personal experiences and right now it's all going well with few
problems. In the future I may buy Window-Eyes through their lease to
own program, but am not sure as of this time. The way things are going
with NVDA to me will possibly replace the commercial offerings for
individual consumers like myself. So might just stick with NVDA and
only NVDA, and only use JAWS for the above.
Have a good day.


Chris Hallsworth
E-mail and Facebook: christopherh40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
MSN: ch9675@xxxxxxxxxxx
Skype: chrishallsworth7266
Twitter: http://twitter.com/christopherh40

On 11/05/2010 12:16, Barry Toner wrote:
Hi all,

I started writing this late last night and ran out of steam. I posted
it to
the GWMICRO-INFO list under the thread of I've Something To Say.

It's not the best piece I've ever written but I wanted to share my
experiences with you all as a long-term JAWS user.

Messege Starts

" I can also chime in on this thread with a personal tale.

I have been using Window Eyes on and off for around 6 years.

I lost my sight in an accident when I was18 years old. I frustrated
myself
with Hal for about 2 years and then I found JAWS. Whilst it did not
replace
being able to use Windows with sight it was a breath of fresh air
compared
to Hal 4.2. Especially when it came to surfing the Internet. This
would
have been JAWS 3.7 I started with.

I've watched the decline of JAWS over the years in terms of
problems not
being fixed, new ones being introduced and generally allot of
half-baked
product development going through out onto the market. Not to mention
as I
see them very fluffy plug ins and the nightmare that has always
existed JAWS
licensing.

Despite these failings I was not prepared to move outside of my
comfort
zone. Even at the time when my peers where doing so and I would have
most
benefited from their support and vice versa.

In saying this I completed two Computer Science Degrees using JAWS.
Though
having learnt what I have in the past weeks things just as a fact
would have
been allot easier with Window Eyes. What's that old saying though?
About
heinsight being twenty twenty.

Just over three weeks back I decided I wanted to learn to use Window
Eyes.
I didn’t' say too much to friends who would only think that we'd been
there
before. When they tried to get me to see the light, so to speak.

I sat down and thought how best to approach Window Eyes this time.
Something that would be different from previous half-hearted
attempts to
give the product a fair go.

So, I decided I would use Window Eyes and no other screen reader for
1 full
week. No matter what task I needed to do on the computer. I made a
commitment despite my tasks priority to use Window Eyes. I was
determined
to learn how to do it with Window Eyes.

This was allot harder than it may sound. Especially as I'm really not
that
much of a committed person when it comes to Window Eyes. Or rather I
wasn't.

So I unloaded JAWS and installed Win Eyes v7.11 onto my Windows 7
32Bit
Desktop.

I really needed to make this a genuine attempt. I decided to make it a
social experiment instead of a hardcore, I'm going to do this and if
I go
back to JAWS I've failed. So I announced on my twitter and Face Book
feeds
what I was going to do. I then sent updates several times a day
including
@gwmicro in the thread of the good, bad and ugly.


Let me tell you the language I through at the computer for the first
three
days was disgraceful! But when I learned how to use the Mouse Keys,
started
to read sections of the excellently layed out manual, joined this
list and
discovered Script Central I started to get a bit excited.

One of my main frustrations was the amount of times v7.11 would do odd
things. By this I mean it would clip words in Outlook 2K7. Scripts
would
crash, Window Eyes would crash if set to load upon log-in. I
discovered
that Window Eyes wasn't as infallible as the fan boys and girls made
it out
to be. Oh yes and I got a healthy taster that no doubt End_users I've
supported as a Systems Engingeer have gotten from me a time or too.
That
of, "uh that's weird" "It doesnt' do it on my machine like that". This
maybe true but it's not a helpful response!

So for me it's not been an experience of "The most stable Screen
Reader".
JAWS for me still holds that trophy on my system. Well, it would if
it was
still installed.

It's been over three weeks and I've not went back despite user error
problems and bugs with Window Eyes.

Now, it is fair to say that a new user of a product will often make
mistakes
through just not knowing. I'm not exceempt from this. However, there's
allot going on in a person learning a new thing. Whither that is a
computer
program, folding lawndry etc.

So why might you ask despite the problems I had and in some cases
like the
clipping words didn’t' I just do the easy thing and switch back?
Simple,
I'd decided I'd rather put up with some problems that can either be
worked
round or ignored until they are either fixed or I'm told of something
I'm
not doing to get Window Eyes to do what I want. In doing so I get the
wonderful functionality and fresh approach Window Eyes has given to my
computing. This compared to the stale product that did, serve me well
for a
time but has frankly become a bit of a farse in comparison. I.E. JAWS.

I used to believe that JAWS and Window Eyes both had their place. I
believed this kept me nutral and made me unlike The Zellots, (as I
saw them
at the time), who sat in each camp throwing muck back and forth.

I find myself looking on at other people in my life who are using
JAWS and
struggling and want to cry out to them. Look, you dont' need to
carry on
with those bad habits you learned with JAWS. Tabbing all over the
screen
and not using keystrokes in say,and Installer Wizard of alt n for
Next.

It's incredible the amount of JAWS users who are not aware of how to
use the
JAWS Cursor. that's a real bug bear of mine now having used Window
Eyes
mouse Keys. the fact you need to completely switch to a different
mode then
back to the PC Cursor mode. no wonder people get confused!

I could detail my own feelings on a lengthy list of JAWS short
comings not
to mention the iresponsable way Freedom Scientific treat customers.
I'd
only be preaching to the crowd and end up falling into the camp of
"My ones
bigger than yours".

I'd like to think i can lead by example to people I know that use
JAWS and I
see struggling with the mindset it forces on people of the old and
comfortable. By letting them see my completley fresh approach and no
longer
fear of trying something new just for fun. Sadly though I'm a geek
and I
believe most of my friends will discount what I'm doing as down to
that.
rather than, "I could be having that much fun and productivity as
well".

Trailing off a bit as I need to get out before the rain starts here!"

Barry Toner


BCS Belfast Branch
YPG Representative& Disability Group

http://www.bcs.org/server.php?show=nav.10444



Contact me @

Professional: barry.toner@xxxxxxxxxx

Personal Email: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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AIM/FB: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

TWITTER: dj_paddy

Skype: djpaddy

Mobile: (UK) +44 (0) 7921 611 253




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