[tccrockets] Re: NAR junior level one
- From: Jack Garibaldi <jackgaribaldi@xxxxxxx>
- To: <tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 13:09:43 -0700
If you are a non High Power flyer then that is covered too by definition we
know you have to be 18 years of age to be a High Power flyer and if you are
under 18 years of age then you may conduct flights in the Model Rocket
launch area so if you are a non high power flier under 18 see 2-18.2 and if
you are a non high power flyer over 18 then see 2-18.1.1 but then that opens
up a new argument then what if you are an invited guest that is over 18
years old says in 2-18.4.2 that they cannot be in the high power area well
what is the distinction between a non High power person and a guest so if my
Dad was to come and see me fly he is a Non High Power flyer and a guest Now
what do you do?
Jack G
Model Rocket Flier: A flier that is flying model rockets.
2-18.4.2 An invited guest may be permitted in the Model Rocket Launch Area
and preparation areas upon approval of the RSO but shall not be present at
the High Power launch area.
2-18.2 Children younger than 18 years of age may conduct flights from the
Model Rocket Launch Area under the direction of a HPR Flier.
2-18.1 Only HPR Fliers shall be allowed in the High Power Launch Area.
2-18.1.1 Exception: Non-HPR Fliers are allowed in the High Power Launch Area
if escorted by a HPR Flier. A HPR Flier may escort and be accompanied by not
more than two (2) non-HPR fliers in the High Power Launch Area. The HPR
flier escort is required to monitor the actions of the escorted non-HPR
fliers, and the escort is fully responsible for those actions and for the
safety of those escorted.
-----Original Message-----
From: tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of William Kellermann
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:51 AM
To: tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tccrockets] Re: NAR junior level one
This is not a legal opinion - members should consult their own counsel for
specific legal advice... since I am my own counsel, here is my analysis:
To be a High Power Flier, one must be certified. To be certified, one must
be 18. A Non-High Power flier is a flier that is not certified. This
neither includes or excludes minors, by definition. A non high power flier
must be escorted by a high power flier to be in the High Power Launch Area.
So, the crux of the discussion is what did TRA mean by 'flier.' Since that
term necessarily implies more than simply watching, until it is clarified, I
would take that to mean a minor can 'fly' when escorted by a High Power
Flier. There is nothing that suggests any relationship between the High
Power Flier and the Non- High Power Flier so 'father-mother-son-daughter' is
irrelevant. This also ignores state and local law on the subject which
trumps Tripoli, at least in California.
The above is the basis for me taking my Boy Scout Troop to Mudrock this year
and shanghai'ing some of you to 'escort' service.
For those who are hung up on the 'minor may launch' language, I distinguish
between 'fly' and 'launch' as the distinction between 'loading a rocket on
the pad' and 'pushing the button.' Since only the LCO always 'launches' a
rocket by definition, it is a distinction with a difference. Kids can push
the button on a model rocket...
You get what you pay for. And remember, a man who represents himself has a
fool for a lawyer...
On May 22, 2012, at 7:12 AM, Jack Garibaldi wrote:
> Hey Dave
>
> The true question that will clear all doubts up is the under 18
years
> old because if it is yes then a Non member non HPR flyer may be
> escorted with a HPR flyer but if it is No as I read it then all will
> stay the same as under 18 cannot go on the High Power range and if you
> are over
> 18 and not a member or HPR flyer then you have to be escorted.
>
> Jack G
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David
> Weinshenker
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 10:35 PM
> To: tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [tccrockets] Re: NAR junior level one
>
> Sam Fineberg wrote:
>> The Tripoli rules are new. While this may not be the first time, it
>> hasn't been an issue until this year. Tripoli had a fairly bad
>> incident at LDRS which was complicated by having unauthorized people
>> at the pads.
>
> Yeah, I figured that was behind Tripoli's evident present desire to
> have specific policies on access to the "HPR Pad Area" as such (a
> point on which I don't think the NAR rules are quite as explicit)...
>
> So do the new TRA rules require that a candidate for TRA certification
> (as a "Non-HPR Flier") "escorted" to the pad area? (Or does this fall
> under the same category as non-certified individuals being
> specifically allowed to buy HPR motors for the purpose of making
> certification attempts?)
>
> Seems like it would be good to get a clarification (as Jack said he
> planned
> to) from TRA HQ on whether an NAR "junior cert"
> candidate with a parent (HPR-certified and over 18) would count as a
> "Non-HPR Flier ... escorted by a HPR Flier" for the purpose of the
> "2-18.1.1 Exception".
>
> -dave w
>
>
>
>
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