Jay,
I agree, pulling fuel lines on and off can be very difficult and involves a
lot of vocalizing at times. You have a good solution. Sometimes the o
ring can get damaged by multiple blind stabs with the fuel stem J.
Gary
From: scoaa-members-bounces@xxxxxxxxx
[mailto:scoaa-members-bounces@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of jay lambert
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:24 PM
To: scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Scoaa-members] Auto-discard notification
Hey Gary--Comments always welcome, I learn a lot. We tried pulling the fuel
lines clips but because of tight space very difficult to reconnect easily
and securely. They pop off and you run out of fuel at the most inopportune
times. There is a bit of fuel wasted but so much easier with the valves. We
do it every time, maybe overkill but we don't store the boat as we're in
Kona--year round sailing!
jay
On 2/18/2014 11:14 AM, Gary Oelze wrote:
Hi, Jay,
I agree with running the fuel out prior to storage. On a similar note I
don't think fuel additives are worth a dime. I have held gas for years in
my tanks and jerrys for 6 months each year. After six months I'll have some
condensation which I'll discard (the water part). After 9 years I have
never had to clean carbs or deal with poor operation. It may be due to
using Red Gas from Venezuela.
For stowing engines, I just unplug the fuel line from the engines prior to
running fuel out. Unless there is a problem incurred by doing it this way I
think this saves a lot of idle run time, extra gas burning, some extra minor
noise and nose pollution. I remove the sparkplugs and put a teaspoon of
engine oil (I'll admit to some 3 in 1) in each cylinder. This aides in
keeping cylinder wear down upon return 6 mo later. Re-seat the plugs prior
to stowing long term of course.
I always feel like piping in, sorry so long in the tooth.
Gary
From: scoaa-members-bounces@xxxxxxxxx
[mailto:scoaa-members-bounces@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of jay lambert
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 11:07 AM
To: scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Scoaa-members] Auto-discard notification
Aloha, all---This may be what everyone does but no mention of it in the
posts--we put fuel shut-off valves (plastic--cheap) in-line just ahead of
the pump bulbs (so easy to reach) and shut the fuel off when back in the
slip, letting the engines run until they are out of fuel. Keeps the carbs
clean, no gumming of parts, regardless of what kind of fuel is used,
especially if you don't use your boat regularly....
Jay
On 2/18/2014 4:48 AM, Eduardo Camps-Romero wrote:
Hello Joe,
I had my boat in Alameda at, I forget the name of the Marina but it was on
the bay side and an Almar facility. Really liked my end tie and not having
to motor up the estuary. I then left for Japan for a ear and placed the boat
in Captained charter where my engines gave me endless problems and she was
at Treasure Island for a bit and is now on the estuary in central basin.
Several Ha Ha's, impressive. My plan was to take the family in 2011 but then
my wife was awarded a grant to do her fieldwork for her PhD in Anthropology
in Japan and the cruising kitty went to support our family for the last two
years. Now back in the USA but on the wrong coast, in Miami Florida. I
bought a 18 foot Cape Dory Typhoon and wouldn't you know it, have had
nothing but problems with my Honda 5 hp outboard.
I will look to give you a call when my voice comes back after a cold I am
working through. I would really like to tap your experience and any help you
might be able to provide. I have a game plan to Cabo but need to figure out
the rest.
Thanks for you time,
Eduardo
On Feb 17, 2014, at 8:18 PM, JOE WEATHERS <JWEATHERS@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Eduardo,
My name is Joe Weathers. Just getting caught up with the conversation that
has been going on about your boat. Rigging, engine replacement, hull
extensions, rudder seals, etc.. I keep my Seawind (Sea YA) at Alameda Calif,
where do you keep your boat? I have enjoyed Sea Ya for the past 12 to 13
years and have been through many of the issues you address. If you care to
give me a call ( 530 559 2807 ) I will be glad to help in any way I can. Sea
YA and I started in San Diego and we have done several Ha Ha's events, and I
have helped several others make that trip as well.
talk to you latter
Joe
Original Message -----
From: Eduardo Camps-Romero <mailto:ecampsromero@xxxxxxx>
To: scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Scoaa-members] Auto-discard notification
Michael,
Thank you again. I am concerned about anything dragging in salt water. I
wonder how the new Seawinds XL2 deal with this. I can't imagine they would
have something sticking out of the engine pod. I was told by the mechanic
that on the XEHB (I don't think they make the A anymore?) it wouldn't start
at the key. It's good to hear that at least yours did. X = 25" shaft, P =
power tilt, not really sure what the B means.
Later this week the mechanic will swing by my boat to give me an estimate. I
read that some folks were finding these engines for $2500 but I don't think
the mechanic would install it unless I bought it from his shop. I would
imagine it would take me longer having never pulled an engine from my
Seawind. I will wait and see what the quote is. I can't really fly all my
tools out so I am kind of held hostage to paying for labor the more I think
about it. Really need to find out about this longer bracket. Perhaps
someone from Seawind can let me know as well as custom brackets they may
sell. I like the idea of replacing the wood in the engine pods with
something more durable. I am a bit concerned that these engines seem to have
less power as the older ones asI felt a little thin on that department with
my old motors. Again my old motors were not pristine. If it wasn't so much
labor I might look harder at the Honda 20's. I really haven't heard of much
else in terms of engines being used. I read in the archives someone who put
the power tilt engines in his Seawind but didn't hear anything about the
bracket sticking out. Would be great if the owner could comment for me.
I have a long list before I would feel the boat is ready to go out the
golden gate. Finish up replacing the standing rigging. Go over the running
rigging. New sails and I imagine batten cars. I have original electronics
but figure I will be beyond broke at this point. I might hire a captain for
the leg from San Francisco to San Diego perhaps stopping off at the Islands
along the way. Not sure how much hiring a captain costs.
Then Maybe the the Ha Ha (a big regatta from San Diego to Cabo San Lucas),
will need some crew for that but I don't think at that point I would need to
hire a skipper feeling a bit more confident in myself. That still leaves my
boat far away from Florida and in a hurricane area. I am really itching to
cruise the Sea of Cortez but can only take so much time off from work and
really want the boat at my home in Miami. I really don't want to sell her
after all I have put into her and she would be such a fine yacht for Florida
and Caribbean.
Really missing sailing on her.
Eduardo
On Feb 17, 2014, at 5:54 PM, Michael Zotzky <michaelzotzky@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Eduardo,
My motors are XEHA. Not sure what the difference in the A vs B. It may be
that the A has the electric and pull start, and the B has only the pull
start? I would be surprised if that were the case.
I had the same choice of going with the power tilt model. If I remember
correctly, I could get that model without the tiller on it, and wiring would
have been easier. My concern was that the mounting bracket for the power
tilt sticks down much further, and I didn't want anything dragging in the
waves. Removing the tiller and connecting the wiring harness was not so
hard. Plus I couldn't see using the power tilt function anyway, instead of
the standard pull-up bracket that comes with the boat. Once the wiring
harness was hooked up, both of my motors are started using the Seawind key
switch. I also hooked up dual tachometers and put them in a pod to the
right of the standard instrument pod. Makes it very easy to assure that the
motors are both running the same speed. Its not unusual for us to spend a
couple of days motoring on the ICW to get to good cruising grounds, and
having the tachs to know exact engine RPM's comes in very handy there.
I installed both of my motors myself. Actually put them in the boat myself
as well. Just use the boom. It would have been easier with another person,
but I did a lot of measuring and moving, etc, to get them exactly where I
wanted, and didn't need a helper standing around for that time watching.
(In other words, I sent my wife home! She didn't find the installation
experience as interesting as I did, apparently!)
Would I pay someone to do this? Yeah, if I really knew the guy/gal would do
a good job. I have not had great luck with small motor mechanics. In more
than a couple of instances, had to go back behind them and fix things they
messed up. This way I knew exactly how to install, remove, wire, etc. I
picked up both motors new from the shop around 10 am, went to a friends
garage to use his bench to clamp the motor on, removed the tiller and got
ready for the wiring harness, carried it to the boat, installed, and was
done with the first motor before dark. Next day I did the second motor, and
had them both running by end of day. It really depends whether you like
doing this kind of stuff or not. I was most intimidated by the wiring, but
as it turned out, it was pretty easy.
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Eduardo Camps-Romero
<ecampsromero@xxxxxxx> wrote:
First off thank you very much Michael for the write up and pictures. It took
me a few days to get to this email and I will certainly be needing to read
it over a few times if I choose to do the work myself.
A couple of questions for you or other members who might know. I just go off
the phone with a local dealer and the models are T9.9 XPB (power tilt), and
XEHB (manual). The difference in price quoted was only $100 bucks. I am
being quoted a bit over 3 grand per engine. I was told the XEHB could not be
started with the key but at the engine. Is this true? Has anyone had
experience with the power tilt, it would be a nice feature and it seems the
XL2's have them? I am in Florida and my boat is in California so I may need
to pay for labor. We'll see how much they quote me. I have been quoted
$4,000 for labor before which seems rather steep and that figure might get
me to try and do the work myself.
Thanks again for your time and thoughts,
Eduardo
On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:29 PM, Stephen Wendl <sww.scoaa@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
for some reason this msg was dropped
Begin forwarded message:
From: scoaa-members-bounces@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Auto-discard notification
Date: February 11, 2014 at 4:27:21 PM PST
To: scoaa-members-owner@xxxxxxxxx
The attached message has been automatically discarded.
From: "Michael Zotzky" < <mailto:mzotzky@xxxxxxxxxxx> mzotzky@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Seawind 1000 Jumanji Re-Power
Date: February 11, 2014 at 4:26:33 PM PST
To: < <mailto:scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx> scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: < <mailto:michaelzotzky@xxxxxxxxx> michaelzotzky@xxxxxxxxx>
Eduardo,
Here is my write-up after doing the repower on my SW1000. I currently have
about 50 hrs on each motor since the repower. I would say the new motors
are quieter, get better gas mileage, but do not have the torque of the older
motors. The power is adequate though. These motors also have the flush
fitting, which makes them very easy to flush out with fresh water after
every use.
They are considerably smaller - even though both are 9.9 hp - and take up
less room in the box. That also makes them easier to remove using the boom.
I did not dry dock the boat to do the motor change-out.
Michael
_____
From: Michael Zotzky [ <mailto:mzotzky@xxxxxxxxxxx>
mailto:mzotzky@xxxxxxxxxxx] ;
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 4:02 PM
To: ' <mailto:scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx> scoaa-members@xxxxxxxxx'
Subject: Seawind 1000 Jumanji Re-Power
Hello All,
Just wanted to share some info on our recent re-power of 2002 Seawind 1000,
hull 123. The original engines were 2002 year model Yamaha FT9.9D
outboards. The port engine failed after 1,100 hours (crankshaft &
bearings), and the cost to repair the motor was estimated to be $2,600 vs
$3,000 for new motor. We chose to replace both engines with new Yamaha XEHA
model outboards. These are 9.9 hp, extra long shaft (25 in) engines - as
were the original motors. However, as Joe and others have noted, the
original motors were the 323 cm3 (19.71 cu in) displacement outboard that
used the same block as the 15 hp. The new 9.9 Yamahas share the same block
as the 8 hp models with 212 cm3. I cannot comment on thrust generated by
new motor vs the old ones, as they've only been run a few minutes so far.
On the plus side, the new motors weigh less, are smaller, and quieter - and
may burn less fuel.
Anyway, back to the re-power. The choice facing anyone in the US doing this
is to buy: a) model with remote shift and throttle setup, but with power
tilt and trim (and a very tall mounting bracket that requires modification
of the motor pod), or b) model with tiller and manual tilt and trim (and
shorter mounting bracket). We opted for selection b), and ordered the
stainless parts from Seawind to convert from tiller to remote operation.
(Current cost is $315 per motor for the Seawind parts, plus $70 shipping
from Aussie land.) The two-motor bundle of parts is shown in the picture
labeled "ONE - SEAWIND KIT". We disconnected the shift cable in the motor,
by pulling out one very small cotter pin. This is going to take a long
screwdriver to bend flat, and then a set of needle-nose pliers to pull it.
Just follow the shift cable to find it. The throttle control actually
consists of two cables that pull in either direction. You can loosen the
cables and then the slugs on the end have to be worked thru some slots to
disconnect. Then disconnect the wiring (unplugged the two starter button
wires, and the two kill switch wires), and completely remove the tiller
handle. You can see in picture TWO that the only remnants of the tiller are
the two holes (top, right). I saved the tiller assembly as when I was
selling my old working motor, there was a lot of demand from fishermen
wanting to use them for kickers, but few wanted to deal with the remote
controls. This will allow me to convert the motors back to tiller
operation.
On the tiller side, is a soft rubber section that is about 3 inches wide by
1-1/2 inches tall that has three holes - one for the power cable, one for
the throttle and shift cables, and a third hole for the small wires of the
kill switch and starter button. This rubber section pops in and out pretty
easily. We removed the new power cable, and used the hole to hookup the old
power cable to the motor. The throttle/shift cable holes were filled with
black silicone and sealed - since you are going to be moving these cables to
the other side of the motor. The third hole - a round one - was used to run
the electrical harness cable into the motor. Note that we also re-used our
old 7-pin harness for this, and did not buy a new harness. (Re-using the
harness and the power cables also avoided having to rerun and seal these
thru the bulkhead.) Look at the rubber section, and compare it to the cable
and harness wires, and it's pretty obvious which hole to use for the power
cable (flat), and which to use for the wiring harness (round).
Wiring was very simple as Yamaha wiring is standard color. Merely hook up
the harness wires to the same color wires in the motor. All of the
connections are on one side of the motor, and held in place in a bracket.
There are also a couple of connections in the front. The male ends on the
harness plug into female wires on the motors. Some female ends of harness
wires had male ends in the motor. It was pretty idiot proof. Although I
was really concerned about this beforehand, wiring turned out to be the
easiest part of the re-power. Go ahead and wire up the harness before you
put the motor in the well. If you look at picture one, you can see how the
power cable and wiring harness fit under a plastic fitting near the top
right, and then lead into the rubber panel on the motor. I also zip tied
these two cables to this fitting, so they don't move. Near the top of
picture TWO, you can also see where all of the wires come together.
Now for the Teleflex cables. The Seawind parts include a bracket that bolts
to the bottom cowling of the motor, using existing holes. The throttle and
shift cables are held in place with Teleflex cable clips (also included in
the Seawind kit). It is a fairly sturdy bracket, and needs to be as the
cables put a lot of stress on it. The bracket is well-made, with the only
disappointment being the holes pre-drilled on the bracket are not the same
spacing as the Teleflex cable clips. So be prepared to drill new holes -
which unfortunately need to overlap the old holes - or "widen" them however
you can. Make sure you have new bits as stainless is not easy to drill,
especially when the new hole overlaps the old.
For the attachment of the throttle cable on top, the holes were in the right
location, but just needed to be correctly spaced. For the shift attachment
on the side, we found that drilling new holes about one-half inch closer to
the motor allowed for more thread in the plastic end piece of the cable.
(In the original hole position, there was only about 1/4 inch of the cable
rod threaded into the end fitting.) In picture THREE, you can see the cable
attachments. The choke and the hard rubber panel on this side of the motor
are removed. Note that the throttle is on the right, and the shift cable on
the left. (Ignore the second set of holes we drilled further in from the
throttle cable attachment. I was trying to see if moving it back a half
inch - as was necessary for the shift cable - but this moved it too far
back.)
Another thing to note in picture THREE is that the Seawind bracket is
attached via the two Phillips-head screws seen below the throttle cable.
(Note that you have to buy all of these screws - they are not in the Seawind
kit. If I had thought about it, I should have noted diameter and length of
each of the screws we used. We ended up buying several sizes, and cut them
off with a hacksaw to get a precise length.) I used stainless steel
washers, separated from the aluminum motor with nylon washers - to prevent
corrosion. I layed a couple of sections of electrical tape on the top of
the bracket that comes in contact with the motor, to prevent corrosion as
well. Nylock nuts were used on all screws. Also, you can see that I used
black heat shrink tubing to seal the connection of the stainless cable tube
to the cable end fitting. On my cables (old), these tubes had separated and
left wire exposed. Hopefully this will limit the exposure of the wire
section to salt water.
The black round fitting that is about two inches to the right of the
throttle cable - with a rubber cap to the right of that - is the new Yamaha
fuel line fitting. They are now round, and you twist on the hose. The
short black hose on the left side of the motor is the flush hose. I
eventually extended these up so they could be accessed easier. (More on
that later.) The water hose end fitting normally attaches to the motor, but
this bracket was removed as it was in the way of the new shift cable
placement. Note that this end fitting must stay connected when the motor is
run, or else the water will go overboard and not cool the powerhead.
Unfortunately I do not have better pictures of the shift connection
installed. You can see the fitting in the middle of the SEAWIND KIT picture
earlier. Probably the best piece of the Seawind kit is this short stainless
steel arm that attaches to the shift axle running across the motor. If you
look closely at picture THREE, this axle runs below the attachment point for
the throttle. You can see the shiny stainless fitting coming in from the
left side of the motor, and held in place with a hex-head screw. Whereas
the Yamaha kit has this shift lever made in plastic, and turned up, the
Seawind kit features it in stainless, and turned down. A rubber cap is
removed from the side of the motor, and the Seawind piece is slid onto the
shift axle, and fastened with a bolt with metric threads. The bolt threads
into the axle. This is really the only metric bolt you will need to buy
(unless you live outside of the US). Oh, and one more thing I did before
sliding on the Seawind shift lever was to put two o-rings on the piece.
There is not enough space for them to fit between the lever and the motor,
but on the outside they can act as a bit of a guard to limit water splashing
in between the shift piece and the motor.
If you look at picture FOUR, you can see the choke installed, and the hard
rubber panel at the base of the choke pull in place as well. This panel
needs to be drilled so that the throttle cable can fit thru it. This takes
a lot of measurement to determine where to drill, and a 1/4 in hole. (I
stretched tape across the opening, straightened a coat hanger, and ran it
thru the Teleflex cable bracket to the throttle end fitting to see where the
hole should be located to line up.) The rubber drills very easily. I
spaced up a bit size because a 1/4 inch bit yielded a hole smaller than 1/4
inch. After you drill the hole, take a sharp knife and cut a slit from the
hole down thru the bottom of the rubber panel. This makes it easy to put on
without having to remove the cable. The slit closes up watertight when the
metal piece on top is bolted on. Near the bottom of picture FOUR you can
see three holes in the bracket that were not used. The outside empty holes
were the original ones. The middle hole is one drilled to fit the Teleflex
clamp. The screws shown are for the final placement of the Teleflex clamp
(which is on the other side, and cannot be seen in this picture.) So you
might want to check your shift cable length before drilling any new holes.
As the shift lever is not turned down, whereas the old motor lever was
turned up, the next step required is to disassembly the Teleflex
shifter/throttle control and move the shift cable to the other side of the
cam. I removed the hose clamps in the starboard hull closet below, and
tugged on the cables to try to get some excess so that the Teleflex assembly
could be pulled up to access the cable attachments. This is where things
got bloody as the internals of this mechanism have a host of sharp parts.
Also be careful that you don't pull the assembly so far as to break the
soldered wire connection that tells the key switch the motor is in neutral,
and motor circuit allowed to start. This is easy to figure out once you see
the assembly internals. It would probably help to have someone below
helping, but not necessary (as I did mine myself). Note that if you don't
do this step, when you move the shift forward, the motor will go into
reverse. As I had both an old and new motor installed at the same time. I
had to disassemble this assembly twice. I thought about doing both sides at
the same time when doing the initial, port motor installation, but didn't
think anyone test driving the old motor would be impressed by it running
backwards!
So that finishes the heavy stuff. Earlier I pointed out the water flush
hose. I removed the end fitting and added a 5/16 inch barb-to-barb
connector and about two feet of Teleflex 5/16 inch fuel hose to extend the
end fitting up to a reachable level. See picture FIVE - FLUSH HOSE. I
also enclosed this hose in the corrugated plastic tubing that is normally
used to encase wires and prevent them from chafe. You don't want this piece
of hose to chafe thru, as your cooling water will be dumped overboard. I
screwed the end fitting to a small piece of high-density plastic. The
screws come from the back of the plate, into the plastic fitting - so you
will need to countersink them. Then I screwed the plate to the motor box
with 1/2 inch long screws. Be careful here as the motor box is very thin
and you can easily drill thru it. (Of course, if you don't care about screw
heads showing, you can always just drill thru the box and screw into the
plastic fitting!) I zip-tied the tubing to the motor bracket to keep it
from chafing on the motor or the shift cable. It probably needs an
additional clamp added to keep it from falling into the motor well when
disconnected. Only other thing to note in this picture is that the fuel
hoses are fairly long, so we can lead them back and hook them into a special
cap on the Honda generator. When they are hooked to the outboard, there is
a loop of fuel line velcro'd on the wall.
Ok, so you probably noticed from picture FIVE that the footprint of these
new motors is very much smaller than the older motors. Plus Yamaha listed
the old 9.9's at 116 lbs, but I suspect that was closer to 120 lbs based on
hefting them off and on the boat a few times. We weighed the new motor with
the tiller removed, and it came in at exactly 100 lbs. It is noticeably
lighter to carry than the old ones. Compare picture SIX to SEVEN to see the
difference in size.
Included in the Seawind is also a bracket to keep the motor from turning.
Both the old and new motors have the same friction lever that keeps the
motor from turning when engage, and allows it to turn when loosened. As
this still works on both of my old motors, and I like the ability to turn
them when working on them, I did not install the Seawind brackets. It also
appeared that the friction levers had to be disassembled on the motors to
install the Seawind brackets. If motor turning ever becomes an issue, I
will pull the motors and install them.
To-date, I installed the port motor, but had a bit of delay on the starboard
motor installation as I left the old one in place while trying to sell it.
(Generally people want to see them run before purchase!) A week ago the old
motor sold, and I installed the new starboard motor as well. Due to other
commitments, I have only run each of them a few minutes, flushed them, and
left the boat. The new motors are very much quieter, but "wiggle" much more
than the older motors. If it was a two-stroke, I would say this is from
break-in, but not sure about four-stroke. The previous owner replaced the
wood on the starboard motor bracket with plastic Star Board, and as the port
wood was showing some cracking, I did the same to the port side when we had
the engines off. I also replaced all of the board attachment screws as they
had evidence of crevice corrosion, and it was very easy to do when the
motors were off. I also put new bolts in to screw the motors to the
brackets, and note the hole placement is not the same for the new motors -
so these have to be drilled. (One of those 12 inch long, 1/4 inch diameter
bits does this easily.) I have purchased new hour meters and tachometers,
and hope to install all of this in the next week or two. We are planning a
long trip in early August, so would be good to get some of the motor
break-in done prior to departure.
Michael Zotzky
<Four.jpg><One - Seawind Kit.jpg><Seven - New Motor.jpg><Six - Old
Motor.jpg><Three.jpg><Two.jpg><Five - Flush Hose.jpg>
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