[pure-silver] Re: Grain
- From: DarkroomMagic <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: PureSilverNew <pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 20:50:14 +0100
Tim
I¹m probably spoiled with the Agfa image setters being so plentiful here in
Leverkusen. There are over 200 in the larger Cologne area, still in
operation (small printers cannot afford modern digital print equipment).
I drop a CD off on the way to work and pick the 11x14 digital negative up at
lunch time for about $8. I have them made as halftones at 3600 dpi and a 225
line screen. This way I get the full 256 shades of gray. I contact print
them on Ilford Multigrade IV FB, emulsion side up and process them normally
including selenium and sulphide toning. The results are superb. One needs a
8x loupe to see the halftone pattern. There is no way to tell otherwise, not
even with the strongest reading glasses.
I spent some time to create the transfer function by printing digital step
wedges and analyzing the tonal reproduction cycle. Now I¹m able to tweak the
finest detail and simulate any film/paper curve combination.
Chris Woodhouse and I did this work in parallel. He worked on the inkjet
version, and I did the image setter negatives. We will publish detailed
results eventually, but the inkjet negatives are clearly inferior. I
understand that inkjet might be the only alternative for many, and maybe for
all of us in the future, but technological evolution hasn¹t always brought
quality improvements in the past.
I did this work, because I was sick and tired of the ?digital vs
traditional¹ discussion. It doesn¹t get us anywhere. Digital negatives is a
way to combine these technologies and get the best of both worlds. We get
the flexibility of digital image manipulation and still end up with an
archival FB print.
Regards
Ralph W. Lambrecht
http://www.darkroomagic.com
On 2006-01-12 09:36, "Tim Rudman" <tim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Ralph,
> I think it was more to do with the rapidly improving inkjet technology and
> the considerable advantages of being able to make negs on your own desktop
> with no turn around time, then if the 1st is not as required it is simple to
> make another, adjust the curve or content in a matter of minutes instead of
> days.
> His book was updated in 2000 (or possibly 1999) but the CD brings it up to
> date for current printers with some useful layer sets for different
> printers, materials and processes.
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of DarkroomMagic
> Sent: 11 January 2006 18:48
> To: PureSilverNew
> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: Grain
>
> No problem. Dan Burkholder's book is a good one. I would recommend it to
> anyone, doing this technique or not. However, his recent departure from
> imagesetters to inkjets was (mis)guided by what he thought is an industry
> trend. AFAIC, it's not the way to go.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Ralph W. Lambrecht
>
> http://www.darkroomagic.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2006-01-11 18:29, "Lee Carmichael" <click76112@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Ralph,
>>
>> that is always a possibility that I would confuse those two things.
>> Thanks for pointing out the problem.
>>
>> lee\c
>>
>>
>> At 09:51 AM 1/11/2006, you wrote:
>>> Lee
>>>
>>> I think you have lpi and dpi confused, but your book recommendation
>>> is a good one and clarifies the math involved.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ralph W. Lambrecht
>>>
>>> http://www.darkroomagic.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2006-01-11 02:36, "Lee Carmichael" <click76112@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter,
>>>> I would recommend that you spend some time with a phone book and
>>>> look for service bureaus in you area. If I were doing this I would
>>>> want to be involved with the bureau and if I had to, teach them what
>>>> I want the negatives to look like. Isn't there a book out there
>>>> about making digital negatives for alt printing? (Dan Burkholder
>>>> http://www.danburkholder.com/Pages/main_pages/page1_main.htm book
>>>> info on that page) I would get that book and study up and show it
>>>> to the service bureau. They might only know how right now to make
>>>> halftone negatives. That may be what you want if you can get them
>>>> in the 2540 lpi and 200 dpi range. That is a pretty fine dot. Be
>>>> aware that not all imagesetters can do 2540 but max out at 2400 lpi.
>>>> There is some math that tells you at a certain lpi you can achieve a
>>>> certain dpi. I am blanking out right now but if I think of the
>>>> formula I will post that too. Good luck!
>>>>
>>>> lee\c
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 11:26 PM 1/9/2006, you wrote:
>>>>> Lee Carmichael wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have installed over 100 imagesetters and platesetters in my
>>>>>> working life. The issue with imagesetters is when they go bad it
>>>>>> costs a lot of money. They cost in the neighborhood of 35K to buy
>>>>>> one of the lower end units. Imagesetters can be repaired. I
>>>>>> don't totally believe Lensworks explanation. There are other
>>>>>> companies that have imagesetters. This is the way negs and plates
>>>>>> are made these days.
>>>>>> Direct to press is starting to make some headway into the shops
>>>>>> but these presses are very expensive and only handle a small
>>>>>> portion of the printing that comes into the shops. There are some
>>>>>> direct to plate machines but we are talking 75K for the low end of
> these.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> lee\c
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee,
>>>>>
>>>>> That's good to hear. Can you recommend anyone for making digital
>>> negatives?
>>>>>
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