Ha! Someone figured out that I got elected to the ATSC board. Sorry 'bout that. I'm sure ya'll already know, but my comments are not ATSC's, and usually, unless I'm explicit about it, not my Pioneer's either. The tone seems a bit defeatist, though. There were TWO lanterns in the old church; AFD is coming. AFD is coming. Yes, of course, Europe is ahead of us on AFD (but then again, it was their idea and it was standardized & promulgated before ATSC got started on it), but it's coming. Certainly one setting for the user to pick from could be "Fill the screen with the content, eliminate bars when possible, but don't distort the aspect ratio of the active video". I'm sure those who implement this mode will have some TM'ed name for it. -----Original Message----- From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Willkie Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 12:10 PM To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [opendtv] Re: Redefining anamorphic Craig; Right on. However, were AFD universal in ATSC-land, like it is in DVB-land, the sets could end up with controls for "make image as large as my set will allow without stretching" in the mix, and you could eliminate several of the distorto modes. You might even be able to eliminate them all! Without AFD being transmitted, we're left with 'various nightmares.' I think this is what Adam Goldberg (an ATSC board member, by the way) of Pioneer was implying a few weeks back. Funny that after criticizing the 'table 3" format restrictions, you are now advocating a new one. That is a very bad idea. John Willkie -----Mensaje original----- De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En nombre de Craig Birkmaier Enviado el: Friday, March 07, 2008 6:10 AM Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Asunto: [opendtv] Re: Redefining anamorphic Another data point to consider for this thread. Even if we could get AFD right and deliver the correct metadata to every TV, it would not solve the problem. For better or worse, the CE industry has given those "dumb consumers" HD capable TVs with enough smarts to screw things up. These TV now come with a variety of modes for accommodating 4:3 content on that big new display. My Samsung has five picture size modes: 4:3 - non-distorted display of the 4:3 source with pillarbox sides Wide - uniformly distorted stretch to fill the screen - can you say "short round?" Panorama - non-uniform stretch: no distortion at center of screen with significant distortion at the edges of the screen - can you say "shape shifters?" Zoom 1 - enlargement of the 4:3 frame with mild cropping of top and bottom to fill the screen. There is a vertical position adjustment to adjust the centering of the zoom. Looks like about a 25% zoom with loss of about 12% top and bottom. Zoom 2 - greater enlargement of the 4:3 frame with cropping of both of top and sides to fill the screen. There is a vertical position adjustment to adjust the centering of the zoom. Not sure the percentage of the zoom, but this is most useful when a 4:3 program is letterboxed into 16:9 at the source, leaving a small 4:3 image in the center of the screen. Given the reality that a TV can be in any of these modes, it seems that broadcasters are settling on what they believe to be the best fix for the moment. I am told at the HPA Tech retreat that during the broadcast panel all of the network representatives told the audience that they are specifying that original 4:3 source have black pillarbox added to create a full 16:9 frame, with the content - and their precious logo bugs - in the 4:3 safe area. This is then transmitted as a 16:9 native source. This seems to work get the 4:3 content displayed properly in all of the modes listed above, however, the log bug may get cropped in the zoom modes, depending on the vertical centering adjustment. What would make more sense to me is to add one more spatial resolution format, which would use the MPEG-2 MP@HL profile/level, which must be supported for the HD formats. That format would be 854 x 480 @ 24/30/60P, square pixel 16:9. I would prefer 1024 x 576P, but this simply looks too good when compared with the HD formats. Regards Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.