[lit-ideas] Re: Seeking the Prime source
- From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:32:03 -0000
>Judy says that my post was irrelevant (I think that's what she
said)
>to the subject of this thread
Yes. On the assumption that its subject is not (as I agree on
one reading, it could be)
the ability of Europe to sustain adequate population growth by
intra-European
migration. I take Steyn's statement (as summarized by Lawrence)
that
"the European birthrate (is), with the single exception of
France, incapable of maintaining its current level of population.
"
to mean "non-Muslim European population" (see my excerpt from
Hari's review of
Steyn), and I assumed the thread centred around the notion that
Muslims
would become the majority in all European countries (France,
perhaps, apart).
If though Steyn is simply saying that migration within Europe
cannot, alone,
offset the ageing of Europe's population, of course I agree.
(But he isn't.)
Judy Evans, Cardiff, UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Paul" <rpaul@xxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:06 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Seeking the Prime source
Lawrence quotes Simon
> The trouble is Lawrence, as I keep saying, commentators like
Steyn
> are preaching to the converted, espousing vacuous theories
that are
> at the same time wrong and yet exactly what their audience
wants
> to hear. All of the Steyn quotes you've transcribed relate to
third
> party anecdotals that appear to vindicate he's central
thesis
> that Islam is taking over Europe. This isn't sound academic
> practice as you well know.
and understandably writes that I responded to this ('Robert Paul
responds:'),
for that is the quote from Simon I began with. This has led to
some confusion
that is mostly my fault. I had meant to begin by citing this
paragraph from
Simon
'The Prime Source in this debate about demographics is,
surprisingly
enough, demographics, not political commentary. Try looking on
the net
for European census data, do some work, then come back with some
results. And a hint, don't forget the young Eastern Europeans -
all
most all of child bearing age - that are streaming into Western
Europe
looking to work, looking to benefit from western culture, looking
to
perpetuate it. Does Steyn mention these new immigrants at all?'
I have no interest in Steyn or his theories, not because I
believe they are
empirically false but because (from reading what's been posted
here
and from clicking on the recommended clickable lines) it's clear
to me
that he makes
no real empirical claims, nor does his ideological mentor,
Huntington. Both
deal with abstractions at such a high level that my inherent
nominalism makes
me reject the whole enterprise. Steyn's claims, from what I can
see, come
closer to offering a theory (?) that can be confirmed or
falsified; I see
no hope for Huntington, with his clashing 'civilizations.'
To return to the point. I was replying--by offering information
gained from
sources that are as close to being 'primary' as I could find--to
the
suggestion
that migration from Eastern to Western Europe would solve Western
Europe's
population crisis. It won't. According to Simon, who may not have
bothered
to look at them, the sources I cited do not give information
about migration
patterns. They do.
Judy says that my post was irrelevant (I think that's what she
said)
to the subject of this thread. It was not irrelevant to what
Simon
said, and what
he said was, I thought then, part of 'this thread.' To say, as
Simon does,
that I have 'not provided break downs within the population
relating to,
for example, white (sic) indigenous Europeans, [M]uslim
immigrants or east
European immigration' is disingenous. To say that I haven't
provided data
on emigration from Eastern Europe to the West, is a bit strange;
that was
the main burden of my post.
Robert Paul
Reed College
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