LH>You obviously missed the absurdity of Irene's statement LH> and my drawing attention to it. I read both posts, Lawrence. I don't read all the lit-ideas posts, I admit; some are too long (IMO). I'm not though sure which statement of Irene's you meant. Anyway. My reaction has nothing to do with the context/s of those of your comments that I singled out (but if you feel the context/s exonerate them, please say so). It's all to do with the history of "Europe"-baiting on this list and its predecessor (a baiting you did not begin; my anger predates your posts, you will find it in Phil-Lit's archives). It's crass, it's unpleasant, it's historically inaccurate, and when not that, historically ill-informed, it's nasty. It continues in the face of factual correction. Garry Younge was surprised to find (some) Americans saying "If it weren't for us, you'd be speaking German now". ("No", he's been known to reply, "I'd probably be speaking Yoruba".) You know what? If it weren't for the French, you'd be speaking the Queen's English now. My Polish neighbours moved out about a fortnight ago but not, as they were going to, to return to Poland; they have a flat there but are staying in Cardiff, in a smaller house. They're part of Britain's settled Polish community. Poland never formally surrendered to Germany, the Poles fought on inside and outside mainland Europe, and their Air Force was crucial to the Battle of Britain. My neighbour is somewhat younger than that. He doesn't talk about that. He does talk about his liberation by Russian soldiers. He speaks of their kindness. Back off. Judy Evans, Cardiff