RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
- From: "Gene" <gwilson@xxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 07:44:03 -0700
Peter:
Whether not "whever". (LOL)
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Peter Holdstock
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:19 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
I think those people who don't understand the problem with JAWS going
straight in to forms mode are missing the point.
A sighted user, despite being placed in the edit field can still look around
the web page for the content they need.
A JAWS user uses quick navigation keys to look around the site as a sighted
person would. The quick navigation keys do not work whilst in forms mode so
therefore you cannot quickly move around the site without having to go out
of forms mode first.
The most sensible place to begin on a page is at the top then the user can
decide where they want to go.
Also, in Google, yes it is safe to assume you are in the edit field, but not
all websites put you in the search box, but some put you in the user id box,
and others put you straight in to the password field if the user box is
already inputted.
Many edit fields do not have sufficient labels attached to them for you to
know what they are wanting you to input, and so it can be difficult to know
whever you need to input the user id, password, search term or other
information (although I realise this is for web developers to get in to the
habit of doing putting better labels on forms).-------------------------
How many times have you gone to use quick navigation not realising that JAWS
has gone in to auto forms mode and ended up entering text instead.
It has been pointed out that you can turn autoforms mode off. But I love
autoforms, and just because I don't want to be put straight in to an edit
fieold, doesn't mean I don't want to use auto forms mode for navigation.
I'm happy to be placed at the first edit box on a site loading, but I think
on that one occasion, JAWS shouldn't put you in forms mode, but perhaps give
you the usual message about pressing enter to go in to forms
mode.-------------------------
Peter
From: "Bissett, Tom" <tom.bissett@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:27 PM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
> But google chooses to put your cursor on the search edit box and that is
> it. If you have a problem with that then complain to google.
>
>
> Tom Bissett
> BMO Financial Group
> Technology and Operations
> Integrated Client Solutions
> Tel: (416) 549-6514
> E-Mail tom.bissett@xxxxxxx
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of DJ
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 8:43 PM
> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>
> I disagree. The first thing I do at Google isn't always type in the
> edit box. I sometimes go to the Maps link, or some other area. So
> searching isn't the only thing on people's minds when they visit Google.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Rick Harmon
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:28 PM
> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>
> No, if the primary thing you do on a page is immediately use an edit
> field such as in the case of google then the focus is on the edit field.
> I do believe this to be proper design of the webpage and nothing of FS
> doing at all.
>
> Also it has nothing to do with web designers hijacking us jaws users at
> all.
>
> Most of these web page designers have no idea what jaws even is.
>
> Rick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>
>
> But Peter,
>
> I'm not sure from what perspective you're saying this about page design.
> When a Web page loads for a sighted user not using a screen reader,
> there is not a focus issue or the page capturing the mouse pointer or a
> cursor of some sort and jumping anywhere. The page simply loads, the
> person sees all of it, glances to where they want to look, and reads.
> Or, if they want to use an edit field, they see it and then put the
> mouse pointer on it. They aren't captured the way our Jaws focus is
> hijacked when a page loads and takes us straight to an edit field.
>
> So do you mean that Web page designers have deliberately coded something
> into edit fields in many cases that they know will attract the Jaws
> focus?
> Or is this rather something that FS designs into the way Jaws sees the
> page as it loads? Or some combination of these two things? See what I
> mean?
> designes JasewJaww
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Holdstock" <peterholdstock@xxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:05 AM
> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>
>
> Yes you can design the web page so that it jumps the user straight to a
> field, and yes it will be because of that design as to why it happens
> with
> some sites and not with others.
>
> I think that JAWS should initially treat the edit field it first jumps
> to as
> the page loads, in the same way as it treats form fields when you use
> the
> quick navigation keys.
>
> Peter
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 4:20 PM
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>
>> Hi Peter and all,
>>
>> It occurs to me that the reason this inconvenient forms mode thing is
>> happening when some Web pages load is that for reasons I'm not
>> sophisticated
>> enough to understand, the Jaws focus is sometimes drawn to the first
> edit
>> field it sees as the page loads. As everyone knows, this doesn't
> happen
>> with
>> every page, not even a lot of pages that have search functions not far
>> from
>> the top of the page. The New York Times, for instance. When one of the
>> article pages load, Jaws leaves me at the top of the page where I can
> hear
>> the headline of the article and the name of the paper. If I actually
> wish
>> to
>> use the global search function to look for something I don't know
> where to
>> find in that day's edition, I hit E or arrow down or whatever until I
> get
>> to
>> the search form.
>>
>> But on other Web pages, Jaws jumps to a search edit field immediately,
>> bypassing text and other page elements that precede it if I arrow back
>> upward to see what's there. So it's something about this which, if it
>> didn't
>> happen that way, wouldn't trigger the auto forms mode thing that's got
>> everyone annoyed. Or almost everyone, anyway.
>>
>> If anyone knows more about page design and the coding of Jaws to
> confirm
>> or
>> preferably add to that admitted speculation, I'd be really interested
> to
>> hear something more about this. It's the technology that interests me
> at
>> this point, as I am not playing with the Beta and I don't feel like
>> getting
>> involved in complaining about Freedom Scientific's corporate style or
>> defending them, either.
>>
>> Thanks very much.
>> From: "Peter Holdstock" <peterholdstock@xxxxxxx>
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>>
>>
>> Yeh you do it out of habit, and then because it's already in forms
> mode it
>> causes you to press submit or something instead.
>>
>> As I say, I like it though, just don't want it to turn on
> automatically.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "dave-d0619" <dave-d0619@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:01 AM
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: Re: JAWS 10 - Auto forms mode
>>
>>> I like that improvement, especially for sites such as Google, where
> you
>>> land
>>> on the search edit field after the site has loaded.
>>>
>>> Personally, I am so used to pressing ENTER to turn on Forms Mode, I
> would
>>> probably continue to do it out of habit and, as we all know, some
> habits
>>> are
>>> so hard to break or change.
>>>
>>> Sincerely:
>>>
>>> Dave Durber
>>>
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