[geocentrism] Re: translational motion of the earth......
- From: "philip madsen" <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:59:40 +1000
Philip from here ............We must not get distracted from the important
criteria, that with the scale of observation being 430 light years as 13
kilometers, and the two axels being within a point less than 0.5mm
the axis and stars are tied to each other...
Absolutely.. As if they were tied together, in fact on my diagram they were a
single point. Geometrically they can be treated as a single point at the
23Degrees point between the axes. bisecting each other there. I cannot
understand why Regner wants to put a magnifying glass on this point when we are
working this scale, which is only 430 light years. .. 1 AU 2 AU and R can
all be considered as equivalent.
IN HC
It does not matter where you are on the earths orbit around the sun, at any
time of the year, a star will always be in the same spot , shifting only due to
the earth rotation. Or any other the camera makes.
The point I'm asking to make is this.. This observation will be identical, for
either system.. Annual rotation or daily, for a fixed camera. If you counter
rotate the camera on the earth to NEUTRALISE the earths rotation,(thats a
sideral rotation) it will stop the stars, then you will see the exact same
trail as the daily one over a year, because despite Regners assertions to the
contrary, a spot/camera if fixed on a rim, which it is on the planet, will
make a full turn over one year. Thats if HC is true.
The inclination angle makes no difference.. I have answered Regners objection
earlier, to another but will do so more specifically tomorrow. in simple turns
the inclination of the axis is fixed . This has no relationship to the surface
of the earths rotation. It can be a solar day increment or a combined increment
of daily and orbital translation, without any precessional influence at all.
Regner used a coffee cup.. Lets use a school globe which is enclined and on
bearings. Put it on a turntable and seize the bearings. With one turn of the
turntable the globe will make one spin rotation relative to space. there will
be no precessional force on the enclined axis.. Why should there be?
Philip.
Philip
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Daves
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:02 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: translational motion of the earth......
Philip from here ............We must not get distracted from the important
criteria, that with the scale of observation being 430 light years as 13
kilometers, and the two axels being within a point less than 0.5mm
the axis and stars are tied to each other...
philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Does anybody other than allen think I said anything to do with stars..other
than Polaris, "how in the world do you come up with stars that are only .5mm
distance across..? " read it again Allen..
We must not get distracted from the important criteria, that with the scale
of observation being 430 light years as 13 kilometers, and the two axels being
within a point less than 0.5mm such must be allowed to be considered as two
spins around the same centre with different axes. That 2AU and R must be
allowed as equivalent.
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Daves
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:32 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: translational motion of the earth......
Philip,
If you look ain any direction and then look in another direction that is
23.44 degrees offset from the first ..how in the world do you come up with
stars that are only .5mm distance across..? ... Philip think about what you
are saying....The sun moves back and forth across the sky 23
degrees......................is that only .5mm accros?...........distnace is
irrelevant any star at any distance will still have the same 23 of arc that the
sun or any other objects does in the sky...23 degrees is 23 degrees. In fact,
the further the distance away to the star the further the star is away from
that axis..?.
philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Allen as usual you put in too many words for anybody to glean what you
are saying..
We must distinguish the difference between rotation of the inclination,
(that would be a precession which does not interest us here) and the actual
physical rotation of the body itself.
Take a basic example,
See my post using a wheel with a dot on its rim. If the dot is the
planet with a fixed inclined angle It is possible for it to turn one spin per
orbit whilst maintaining the correct enclined orientation. With these periods,
the sun would see the same face of the world, for the whole year, except that
there would be a seasonal change of view N -S .. That is the first spin, an
annual spin that Neville expects us to see.
On top of that the world has a second spin daily so that the world can
get barbecued evenly..
Its that simple.
We must not get distracted from the important criteria, that with the
scale of observation being 430 light years as 13 kilometers, and the two axels
being within a point less than 0.5mm such must be allowed to be considered as
two spins around the same centre with different axes. That 2AU and R must be
allowed as equivalent.
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:15 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: translational motion of the earth......
Translational motion is also referred to as "sliding" or "rolling"
motion (to change position without rotation). see attached diagram .....In HC
the nightly axis of rotation or the celestial pole the axis translates around
the orbit of the earth. This is to say that the axis always faces the same
direction ..I¢ll even use Paul¢s diagram to show it ( i expounded upon it) ( i
will reinvent the wheel latter) The celestial pole does not rotate around the
ecliptic axis as Regner showed in his diagram..!? Although I agree (as per
HC/AC) the celestial axis "translates"/ ("slides" to keep looking in the same
direction of the sky) around the ecliptic axis annually. ( if faces that same
direction at the same angle, it does not rotate as Regner showed it to, and if
it did that would even further frustrate any and all attempts to explain it) On
24 hour intervals the camera is inline with the spokes on a bicycle running
from the night side of the earth to the sun. On 24 hour intervals ( midnight)
over the course of a year the camera is in it¢s radial position, not its
"translated position".( Every 23 h 56 min the camera would be in its translated
position.) A radial position over the course of the period of any orbit cause a
net effect of a rotation of the film and camera around the ecliptic axis in the
same way that the camera would nightly. See Paul¢s diagram attached.......
Notice, that on 24 hour intervals regaudell of the translated conditon of the
celestial axis the observer is in a radial position with the spokes extending
out from the sun to the observer, over the cours of a year the fixed camera
will have rotated around the ecliptic axis. The rotational condition cannot be
avoided and thus cannot be negated observably.
----- Original Message ----
From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:42:44 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Two spin axes of Earth?
Regner, Paul and all,
You cannot have "translational motion" (or any motion for that
matter) where every 24 hours lined up as a spoke on a wheel (midnight) at the
same point on earth while in a orbit around the sun and not have a rotational
condition for the fixed observer/photo plate.....That is "TECHNICALLY" called a
"physical absurdity".!?. Nor can It even be modeled in reality
period!......Even if his diagram was true, which it was not even close...
Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Regner T
From Regner Trampedach Tue Nov 13 14:47:09 2007
Thank you for your illustration EarthOrbit2.gif (9KB). It awaits
Allen's confirmation of course, but assuming this is forthcoming, it explains
what he was saying -- which was beyond my ability to comprehend. Well done!
Oops! While writing this, another saga arrived -- it appears Allen
is withholding his confirmation! I got the impression he didn't read all the
stuff in capitals but I may be wrong.
You state (in capitals on a line by itself) THERE IS NO ROTATION
AROUND THE ECLIPTIC AXIS. I take it this is a technically correct statement
which does not rule out translational motion about this axis? And of course
revolution about this axis would also be incorrect -- that motion is about the
Sun. Comments/corrections?
Paul D
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