Allen, You are answering my logic by repeating the logic of the proof, but you are not answering my logic, just re-asserting yours. I say your logic is wrong because the angle of the camera changes with respect to the annual axis in a way as to not be able to record an annual trail. I'm not saying the annual trail doesn't or couldn't exist, I'm saying your methodology will not record it whether it does or does not. JA Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: part 2 JA..take a look at a globe and read my comments.. Last, I repeat my logical challenge (altered a little) because I think it still stands. If the baseline is 0 and either the camera or the star rotates and the camera is fixed to the earth, the nightly star circles will never change position. The nightly never will but the issue is not the basline of 0. It is the angles of the rotataion in relation to the nightly rotation the two axis of rotation are offset by 23.44o you already admitted that the size of the star trail is dependent on the distance of the star from the axis of rotation ..How can the stars be the same distance from both axis simaltaniously all year long?................If they are not the same distance and both axis are being rotated against then how can you have ths same size circles?..... Since the star circles never change position, a different set of circles will never be formed from any type of composite. Therefore it is impossible to record an annual cirlce that is different from the nightly, using the method of nightly recording. --------------------------------- Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.