[geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
- From: "Niemann, Nicholas K." <NNiemann@xxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:02:50 -0500
JA,
Thank you for your follow up.
No, the line of reasoning doesn't apply to me. You rely on your
fallible self. I rely on a Church which claims God-given infallibility.
I always find it interesting that non-Catholics accuse Catholics of
"arrogance" because we speak with certainty. It's not arrogance to rely
on someone other than yourself. It is arrogance to rely just on
yourself as you do.
I'm not "reading your mind or using a crystal ball". I'm just
responding to the obvious from your own statements.
Why do you say you have "so far" rejected the Catholic position. If
you're so certain, why hedge.
Don't look to me to give you "reason to change [your] mind". If you are
serious, I'll provide you some credible things to read for yourself.
Others have made the case, so I'm not about to spend all day writing
emails.
As to the rest of your statements (e.g. that Christ did not establish
the Catholic Church), thank you very much for your OPINIONS---.But why
should anyone rely on the opinions of someone who admits he can be wrong
on everything.
By the way, remember that this began because I responded to you.
Regards,
Nick.
_____
From: j a [mailto:ja_777_aj@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:09 PM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
Thank you for your opinions. Of course, that's all they are. Since you
are fallible, you are capable of being wrong on pretty much everything
you profess. You really don't know for sure, do you. Doesn't this line
of reasoning apply to yourself?
So, I'm letting you in on something. Christ established the Catholic
Church and He assured it that the successors to St. Peter would be
infallible when speaking to the whole Church on matters of faith and
morals. Christ did not establish the catholic church, he established
his church and no-where can you demonstarte this promise of
infallibility of popes by christ's words.This same infallible Pope, in
passing down Christ's teachings, has proclaimed infallibly that there is
no salvation for those outside of the Catholic Church. This
proclamation by itsself proves you wrong
You can ignore all of this and, as they say, be fat, dumb and happy in
your uninformed, fallible beliefs. I am stunned by your arrogance and
judgement. Or you can with an open and honest truth seeking heart and
mind check out the actual claims made by the Catholic Church, with a
willingness to go where the truth actually leads you. I have and I do,
and so far have rejected it. It's your call. All I can do is point out
something you are clearly oblivious to. Are you reading my mind or using
a crystal ball? But realize, when you actually do face Christ upon your
death, and He tells you the same thing I've just told you, you won't
have the excuse of saying you had no way of knowing. You have yet to
tell me anything or give me any reason to change my mind on this subject
other than your own opinion. Which, by the way, is the same standard by
which you condem me. I do not condem you for being a catholic christian.
I assume you profess faith in Jesus Christ to save your soul. Or do you
profess proper participation in your church and correct adherance to the
popes' pronouncments to save you? One is salvation by the grace of god
and the other is salvation by works. I am dependant on Jesus. What are
you dependant on?
Why don't you practice what you preached to me: Pray to God in Jesus'
name and ask for guidance in this area. Then read your bible, by
yourself, just you and God and his word. The experience will either
challenge your beliefs or strengthen them.
Nick, all my questions above are retorical - no need to respond unless
you must. I don't really wish to continue this debate. I am certainly
not learning anything about geocentrism here.
To everyone else: I appologize. Here I am in the middle of one of those
Christian/Catholic arguements that have no place on this forum. To make
it worse, I even complained when others did it before me. Sorry
everyone.
_____
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