[geocentrism] Temporary continuation of catholic/noncatholic arguement - please ignore
- From: j a <ja_777_aj@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:57:32 -0700 (PDT)
Hey Nick,
No, the line of reasoning doesn't apply to me. You rely on your fallible self.
I rely on a Church which claims God-given infallibility. I rely on the words
of Jesus. You rely on the words of a church. And you are wrong, the reasoning
absolutley applies to you because you use your own judgement in doing so. Or
were you predestined to be a catholic and have no choice in the matter?
I always find it interesting that non-Catholics accuse Catholics of "arrogance"
because we speak with certainty. It's not arrogance to rely on someone other
than yourself. You are blind, deaf and dumb on this. You exempt yourself from
any responsibility for your beliefs and condem everyone else for being
responsible for what they believe. Everyone depends on someone else. It is
arrogance to rely just on yourself as you do. I depend on Jesus. How is it that
I depend on myself more than you?
I'm not "reading your mind or using a crystal ball". I'm just responding to
the obvious from your own statements. Sounded mean-spirited and holier than
thou to me. And you have no earthy idea what I know or don't know or have
studied or not studied.
Why do you say you have "so far" rejected the Catholic position. If you're so
certain, why hedge. I am not hedging, I am being honest about my search for the
truth in all matters. I was not reffering specifically to catholicism except in
the rejecting it part.
Don't look to me to give you "reason to change [your] mind". If you are
serious, I'll provide you some credible things to read for yourself. Others
have made the case, so I'm not about to spend all day writing emails. Excuse
me, but you are the high and mighty one trying to scare up converts. I didn't
ask you to attack my beliefs or me. The only thing I would read from your
suggestion would be verses from the bible that you think support your claim.
Anybody can find material to support whatever position they wish to take. You
could be a satanist and still have the same aguements and logic you have
applied so far, and I'm sure you could find lots of written material to support
it. (I am not calling you a satanist, in case there's any doubt)
As to the rest of your statements (e.g. that Christ did not establish the
Catholic Church), thank you very much for your OPINIONS---.But why should
anyone rely on the opinions of someone who admits he can be wrong on
everything. This is where your arrogance really shows. I am not asking you to
change, you are asking me to change. You are the one proclaiming himself to be
absolutly right and infallible. Just because you take your material from
someone else who claims infallibility does not change this.
By the way, remember that this began because I responded to you. I was
responding to the logic of the question you were pestering others to answer.
You are the one who took up the task of questioning my beliefs, instead of
having a conversation about the logic of your question. I was trying to point
out why your question would not convince a non-catholic christian, as it has
not with me. The point is that your arguements are pointless - a christian does
not care what the popes or catholics say or do - unless you first give strickly
biblical arguements, that can be investigated and verified, that tells them
that they should. But I doubt you can do that, otherwise you would.
Anyway, I changed the subject line so others could ignore our diatribes if they
aren't interested in what we are talking about. But this conversation still
shouldn't be on this forem, so, Nick, lets try to bring this to a peaceable
conclusion quickly.
JA
"Niemann, Nicholas K." <NNiemann@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
JA,
Thank you for your follow up.
No, the line of reasoning doesn't apply to me. You rely on your fallible self.
I rely on a Church which claims God-given infallibility.
I always find it interesting that non-Catholics accuse Catholics of "arrogance"
because we speak with certainty. It's not arrogance to rely on someone other
than yourself. It is arrogance to rely just on yourself as you do.
I'm not "reading your mind or using a crystal ball". I'm just responding to
the obvious from your own statements.
Why do you say you have "so far" rejected the Catholic position. If you're so
certain, why hedge.
Don't look to me to give you "reason to change [your] mind". If you are
serious, I'll provide you some credible things to read for yourself. Others
have made the case, so I'm not about to spend all day writing emails.
As to the rest of your statements (e.g. that Christ did not establish the
Catholic Church), thank you very much for your OPINIONS---.But why should
anyone rely on the opinions of someone who admits he can be wrong on everything.
By the way, remember that this began because I responded to you.
Regards,
Nick.
---------------------------------
From: j a [mailto:ja_777_aj@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:09 PM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
Thank you for your opinions. Of course, that's all they are. Since you are
fallible, you are capable of being wrong on pretty much everything you profess.
You really don't know for sure, do you. Doesn't this line of reasoning apply
to yourself?
So, I'm letting you in on something. Christ established the Catholic Church
and He assured it that the successors to St. Peter would be infallible when
speaking to the whole Church on matters of faith and morals. Christ did not
establish the catholic church, he established his church and no-where can you
demonstarte this promise of infallibility of popes by christ's words.This same
infallible Pope, in passing down Christ's teachings, has proclaimed infallibly
that there is no salvation for those outside of the Catholic Church. This
proclamation by itsself proves you wrong
You can ignore all of this and, as they say, be fat, dumb and happy in your
uninformed, fallible beliefs. I am stunned by your arrogance and judgement. Or
you can with an open and honest truth seeking heart and mind check out the
actual claims made by the Catholic Church, with a willingness to go where the
truth actually leads you. I have and I do, and so far have rejected it. It's
your call. All I can do is point out something you are clearly oblivious to.
Are you reading my mind or using a crystal ball? But realize, when you actually
do face Christ upon your death, and He tells you the same thing I've just told
you, you won't have the excuse of saying you had no way of knowing. You have
yet to tell me anything or give me any reason to change my mind on this subject
other than your own opinion. Which, by the way, is the same standard by which
you condem me. I do not condem you for being a catholic christian. I assume you
profess faith in Jesus Christ to save your soul. Or
do you
profess proper participation in your church and correct adherance to the
popes' pronouncments to save you? One is salvation by the grace of god and the
other is salvation by works. I am dependant on Jesus. What are you dependant
on?
Why don't you practice what you preached to me: Pray to God in Jesus' name and
ask for guidance in this area. Then read your bible, by yourself, just you and
God and his word. The experience will either challenge your beliefs or
strengthen them.
Nick, all my questions above are retorical - no need to respond unless you
must. I don't really wish to continue this debate. I am certainly not learning
anything about geocentrism here.
To everyone else: I appologize. Here I am in the middle of one of those
Christian/Catholic arguements that have no place on this forum. To make it
worse, I even complained when others did it before me. Sorry everyone.
---------------------------------
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions - No fees. Bid on great items. This message and any
attachments are confidential, may contain privileged information, and are
intended solely for the recipient named above. If you are not the intended
recipient, or a person responsible for delivery to the named recipient, you are
notified that any review, distribution, dissemination or copying is prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, you should notify the sender by
return email and delete the message from your computer system.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Other related posts:
- » [geocentrism] Temporary continuation of catholic/noncatholic arguement - please ignore
