[dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
- From: Johnathan Detrick <jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:19:00 -0400
His feats do sound very cool. As he goes up in level, his chances to hit
will get better. Patience grasshopper.
I would think that the monk's unarmed attack bonus is only based on monk
levels. It's a completely different fighting style than other characters use
and I think it would be separate.
Damon Kline wrote:
> Hey, both of your characters are as far away from their respective Max hit
> points as mine are. Weird.
>
> Yeah, Kilian does at least have a Minor Cloak of Displacement, but it never
> seems to work for him.
>
> Sinjen has a good AC, I think it's like 26 or something like that. So long
> as he doesn't wear armor. He also has two cool feats that I keep forgetting
> about, but that really haven't come into play yet. The one is the Arrow
> Deflect feat that is the one from the PHB. It's basic, but I think it has
> style points. The other is a similar one, but for melee weapons. It is
> called "Grappling Block" or something like that. It is exactly the same
> idea as in Arrow Deflect, but you block melee weapons. If he doesn't have a
> weapon in his hand and his attack roll exceeds the opponent's roll to hit,
> he takes the melee weapon out of their hand. Very cool style points, I
> think. However, since he has 7 wizard levels and 4 monk levels, his attack
> bonus SUCKS!!!
>
> OH! That brings me to a question, but I think I already know the answer.
> When I am determining Sinjen's base attack bonus (BAB), I had the BAB for
> his monk levels to his wizard levels to get his total BAB. However, what
> about his unarmed attack bonus for being a monk? That follows the same
> pattern as his BAB for a monk, but you get an extra attack when you can
> subtract three and get a positive number instead of five. Would I add his
> wizard BAB to his monk's unarmed attack bonus to get his total unarmed
> attack bonus? Or, is his unarmed attack bonus ONLY based on his monk
> levels?
>
> My feeling is that it is based ONLY on his monk levels and that is how I
> have been doing it thus far. I just wanted to make sure that was right.
> Here is how I thought it out: If Baish goes up a level and decides to
> become a 1st level monk/15th level fighter, would it make more sense that
> his unarmed attack bonus is +1 (that of a first level monk) or
> +16/+13/+10/+7/+4/+1, which is what it would be if he were adding his
> fighter levels to his monk levels to determine the unarmed attack bonus?
>
> On one hand, it makes sense for it to be +1, because he is only a first
> level monk. But on the other hand, he does have 15 levels of experience
> under his belt and he knows how to fight. Should that count towards his
> unarmed attack bonus? I don't know. I don't think so, but I wanted to get
> some opinions.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:59 PM
> To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
>
> Ilana has 82. Her max is 88, so I'm right with you as far as lucky in
> hit
> points. Actually, Quincy's max is 60, so he isn't bad off. He just has a
> poor
> constitution.
> We need to work on Kilian's AC. Ilana's sucks as well, but she isn't
> usually in melee; he is. Maybe we can find some cool items.
>
> Damon Kline wrote:
>
> > So she IS 12th! Well, John, you can add after all! Wow though, only 74
> hit
> > points? I think Kilian has exactly 100. Which is almost maximum for his
> > level and Constitution bonus. And I think Sinjen has either 81 or 87,
> > again, this is almost max for his level, classes and Constitution bonus.
> >
> > Of course, Kilian has needed the hit points, since up until this past
> > Wednesday, his AC has been 15. It's 20 now, thankfully.
> >
> > I must just have really good rolls. Kilian's maximum possible is 110 and
> > Sinjen's is 93.
> >
> > How many hit points does Illana have?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matt McKeehan [mailto:matt.mckeehan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:49 PM
> > To: 'dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
> >
> > Yeah sonya only has 74 hit points...
> >
> > Matt Mckeehan
> > DJS Citrix LAN Supervisor
> > Admin Office of The PA Courts
> > PA Supreme Court
> > (717)795-2063
> > (717)514-9446 mobile
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:35 PM
> > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
> >
> > Actually, he isn't the highest level member of the group. Sonya is
> also
> > 12th level.
> > I wouldn't worry about it. He will not be overpowering. Most of his
> > spells
> > do smaller amounts of damage, and he only has 50 hit points. He's not too
> > tough
> > as a character.
> >
> > Damon Kline wrote:
> >
> > > He is the highest level member of the group. That is a good idea.
> > (Taking
> > > non-damaging spells at first level.) The only exception is usually
> magic
> > > missile. But most damaging spells at that level have a +1 per level
> > damage
> > > adjustment, with a maximum of +5. So, I certainly see what you mean.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:27 PM
> > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
> > >
> > > My goal with first level spells is to usually avoid damaging spells,
> > as
> > > they
> > > become useless at the levels we play at. I go for things like Spider
> > Climb.
> > > Quincy is 12th level, and just barely that. He won't be going up
> for
> > > some
> > > time.
> > >
> > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > >
> > > > What level is Quincy? I think you mentioned it on Wednesday night,
> but
> > I
> > > > can't remember. First level is usually tough, although 3rd edition
> > > doesn't
> > > > seem as bad as 2nd edition when it comes to picking spells at certain
> > > > levels. I remember 2nd level being a pain in the butt to try and find
> > > > spells in 2nd edition.
> > > >
> > > > My problem with low level spells is usually that most of them are the
> > kind
> > > > of spell that really isn't that useful, but you never know when you
> > might
> > > > need something like it. Then I end up with too many choices, trying
> to
> > > > figure out what type of situation we might run into that would require
> > > > certain spells and that sort of thing.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:17 PM
> > > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
> > > >
> > > > Quincy has four metamagic feats (Empower, Extend, Maximize and
> > > Quicken).
> > > > I
> > > > hope to use them more and more as he increases in level. I'm giving
> the
> > > > current
> > > > spell list a trial period of a few adventures. Then I'll go through
> and
> > > > rearrange it. My only problem is first level. I have some spell
> slots
> > > I'm
> > > > less
> > > > than happy with, but I don't know what to do with them, since I can't
> > use
> > > > any
> > > > metamagic feats at that level.
> > > >
> > > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I must admit to being pretty excited to see what these guys can do.
> > At
> > > > > every spell level for Sinjen, I tried to do an equal mix of combat
> > > versus
> > > > > non-combat spells. However, the non-combat spells are mostly
> personal
> > > > > protection spells or things that can help him specifically. I felt
> > that
> > > > > better suited his personality.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kilian on the other hand took mostly spells that could help the
> party.
> > > > > Either healing, summoning or other spells that could affect either
> the
> > > > party
> > > > > or their enemies. I don't know if I took any spells that he could
> > cast
> > > > only
> > > > > on himself.
> > > > >
> > > > > A maximized Vampiric Touch is a great idea. I haven't assigned any
> of
> > > > > Sinjen's Spell Secrets yet. He only gets two, but I haven't decided
> > on
> > > > > either one. I'm thinking of using the Extended Spell feat on a
> > personal
> > > > > defense spell like Stoneskin or Lizardskin (oriental spell). That
> way
> > > it
> > > > > would last twice as long.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was also thinking, as he goes up in level, of giving him the
> Quicken
> > > > Spell
> > > > > feat, which allows you to cast a spell as a free action. That would
> > be
> > > > cool
> > > > > to have a fireball memorized that way, because you could
> theoretically
> > > > cast
> > > > > two fireballs in the same round! Cool!
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 12:03 PM
> > > > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
> > > > >
> > > > > Isn't it fun to see what your characters are capable of? I had
> > some
> > > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > most ludicrous spells for Quincy; who the hell would cast some of
> the
> > > > things
> > > > > he
> > > > > took? I'm hoping that I have a nice mix of combat and non-combat.
> He
> > > > does
> > > > > use
> > > > > some meta-magic feats, although not too many. Usually, I find a
> level
> > > > where
> > > > > I
> > > > > only have stupid spells, and see what lower level spells I can
> replace
> > > the
> > > > > stupid ones with. In his case, I maximized a vampiric touch, since
> > the
> > > > > health
> > > > > could save his life at some time.
> > > > > That was a great idea that Jim had, using a separate character
> > sheet
> > > > for
> > > > > Kilian when in super-hero mode. :) It should make it a lot easier
> > for
> > > > you.
> > > > > I
> > > > > think these five will be pretty effective. Separately they are
> flawed
> > > and
> > > > > wussy, but together, they are mighty!
> > > > >
> > > > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Great minds must think alike, as I have been working on my
> > characters
> > > as
> > > > > > well. Sinjen just went up a level, which makes him a 7th level Wu
> > > > Jen/4th
> > > > > > level Monk. This gave him one extra 1st level spell and a 4th
> level
> > > > > spell,
> > > > > > plus his bonus spell at 4th level, which gives him two.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, one thing I have not done much with when using Wizards
> are
> > > the
> > > > > > metamagic feats. Sinjen only has one, but I'm trying to find a
> way
> > to
> > > > use
> > > > > > it. At this point, he can't, because it would only allow him to
> > > > maximize
> > > > > a
> > > > > > 1st level spell because it requires it to be 3 levels higher. He
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > > want to give up a 4th level slot just yet, since he just got them.
> > > But,
> > > > > as
> > > > > > a Wu Jen, he has a cool ability. At 3rd level and every 3 levels
> > > after
> > > > > > that, he can use Spell Secret. He can choose any spell that he
> > knows
> > > > and
> > > > > > apply one of four metamagic feats to it permanently. Those are
> > > Enlarge
> > > > > > spell, Extend spell, Silent spell and Still spell. They do not
> > > require
> > > > > you
> > > > > > to memorize the spell at one level higher as is normally the case
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > effect is permanent for that spell. So, if he chooses to apply
> the
> > > > silent
> > > > > > feat to a magic missile, then any time he memorizes a magic
> missile
> > > > spell,
> > > > > > it is silent. I also revamped his spell list to give him more of
> an
> > > > > > oriental feel, using some of their unique spells. I don't know
> that
> > > > this
> > > > > > will do much, since most of their spells require you to hit and
> the
> > > > target
> > > > > > gets a save, but it will look cool. This character is always
> about
> > > > style.
> > > > > > :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I took Jim's advice and used a separate character sheet to make up
> > > > Kilian
> > > > > as
> > > > > > a 20th level druid for when he "summons the power of his father".
> > I'm
> > > > > still
> > > > > > in the process of picking spells, but so far he should be pretty
> > kick
> > > > ass
> > > > > > when he does this! I also changed his normal spell selection
> > around.
> > > > > I've
> > > > > > wanted him to call upon nature's help by summoning animals, but
> they
> > > > > always
> > > > > > seem so useless against what we normally fight. However, I found
> > > spells
> > > > > > that I always overlooked because I couldn't figure out why you
> would
> > > use
> > > > > > them. The two that I found in particular were Greater Magic Fang
> > and
> > > > > Animal
> > > > > > Growth. So as a tactic, Kilian could use Summon Nature's Ally V
> to
> > > > summon
> > > > > a
> > > > > > Dire Lion, which is a decent animal to have around, but not overly
> > > > > > threatening. Then he could cast Animal Growth on it which doubles
> > its
> > > > > size
> > > > > > and hit dice. This increases its strength and it's base attack
> > bonus
> > > > and
> > > > > > it's damage done. It increases its hit points and armor class as
> > > well.
> > > > > > Very useful spell. Then, Greater Magic Fang grants one natural
> > attack
> > > > of
> > > > > a
> > > > > > creature a +1 for every 3 levels of the caster. Effectively
> making
> > > the
> > > > > > creature able to increase its ability to hit and do damage and
> > > override
> > > > > > damage reduction if the bonus is high enough.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now the downside to all of this, is that it would take him 3
> rounds
> > to
> > > > get
> > > > > > this in place. Since he is the party's main fighter at this
> point,
> > > that
> > > > > > might be a problem. But, we'll see how it goes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am definitely excited to play these guys!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 11:31 AM
> > > > > > To: Riders II
> > > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Character stats
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have spent the last few mornings before work going over
> > Magnus,
> > > > > > Quincy and Ilana, since they are the current active characters I
> > have.
> > > > > > I wanted to let Jim know what changed, since he is DMing. I also
> > > wanted
> > > > > > to show that I have accomplished all of the following, in time
> > spurts
> > > of
> > > > > > 15 minutes each, in just a few days. Now, I love to create and
> > fiddle
> > > > > > with characters; its one of my favorite parts of the game. But I
> > have
> > > > > > always believed it leads me to enjoy the game more; when my
> > characters
> > > > > > are at their best and everything is organized, I can play for
> hours.
> > > > > > And it's not about making them the most powerful character I can;
> > it's
> > > > > > about choosing feats, skills and spells that fit their
> personality.
> > > In
> > > > > > the end, though, this does make them more effective, so the
> results
> > > are
> > > > > > still positive.
> > > > > > Ilana is now an 8th level cleric. I made no real changes
> here.
> > > One
> > > > > > of the things I decided for her was to make her a utility cleric.
> > > Since
> > > > > > she won't attack, I can forget all of the offensive cleric spells.
> > > > > > Instead, I'm trying to give her spells to allow her to aid the
> group
> > > in
> > > > > > any situation. Spells like Water Breathing, Freedom of Movement,
> > > > > > Neutralize Poison, Remove Disease, Dispel Magic, Restoration and
> the
> > > > > > like should enable her to help out in a variety of areas. I had
> > > pretty
> > > > > > much decided on that direction for her when I created her, and
> it's
> > > > > > helped me to give her purpose, and it helps me to know what to do
> > with
> > > > > > her in combat. And it fits her personality perfectly.
> > > > > > Magnus isn't quite done yet, but as expected, he is now 21st
> > > level.
> > > > > > I've begun to raise him in level with the epic level book. Sadly,
> > he
> > > > > > gets very little. I need to pick an epic feat for him and I am
> > done.
> > > > > > I'll let Jim know what I choose.
> > > > > > Quincy took the most work (although it was still only about 30
> > > > > > minutes). He is one of those characters that I created a long
> time
> > > ago
> > > > > > with a strong idea, and then completely forgot about. I see him a
> > lot
> > > > > > as Giles on Buffy. He's extremely intelligent and very
> inquisitive.
> > > He
> > > > > > is absolutely fascinated by undead and their like, but he doesn't
> > use
> > > > > > undead, and he doesn't support them. He has some elements of
> > > Thaylone,
> > > > > > in that he is looking for a group to belong to and acceptance, but
> > > he's
> > > > > > not as concerned as Thaylone is about it. He's not a bad guy, but
> > he
> > > > > > can be a little ruthless. Combine the love of knowledge from
> > Zolkiir,
> > > > > > with the pragmatism of D'Alleva and the quest for acceptance of
> > > > > > Thaylone, throw in a little of Quent's cowardice, and a dash of
> > > > > > prissiness, and there you have him.
> > > > > > I had to completely overhaul his spell list. As some of you
> may
> > > be
> > > > > > aware, Necromancy (in my opinion) has some of the most useless
> > spells
> > > > > > out there! Yeesh! It's even harder when you remove those spells
> > that
> > > > > > animate undead. However, I decided to make up my own type of
> > > necromancy
> > > > > > spell list. Besides those spells that are actually necromantic
> > > spells,
> > > > > > I loaded him up with cold spells. To my mind, cold is the element
> > > most
> > > > > > associated with the dead (and please, let me know if you think I'm
> > off
> > > > > > base), so I removed all fire spells and now all of his offensive
> > > spells
> > > > > > are cold. To me, he seems pretty cool, and I think his new spell
> > list
> > > > > > will be very helpful! I can't wait to use him!
> > > > > > So that's where my characters stand, ready to go for next
> week.
> > I
> > > > > > can't wait!
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