[dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
- From: Damon Kline <damon.kline@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:27:45 -0400
Ah, you are wise beyond your years...
Yeah, it makes sense, I guess...whatever... :)
I think he will most likely continue to grow equally, but we shall see.
Well, I'm getting set to leave. Have a great weekend!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 4:27 PM
To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
But if he continues to increase as a wu jen, he won't need the melee
bonuses, since I doubt he'll be going into melee very often. Make sense?
Damon Kline wrote:
> That is what I thought as well. I just wanted confirmation, to make sure
> that I wasn't cheating myself out of possible bonuses!! Of course, the
> bonuses would only have been that of a 7th level mage, which is maybe +3,
> but hey, anything helps.
>
> Yes, if I increase his levels as a monk, his bonuses will increase, but if
I
> continue to have him grow as a Wu Jen, he won't get very many bonuses. Oh
> well, the trials of having a multi-class character...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 4:19 PM
> To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
>
> His feats do sound very cool. As he goes up in level, his chances to
> hit
> will get better. Patience grasshopper.
> I would think that the monk's unarmed attack bonus is only based on
monk
> levels. It's a completely different fighting style than other characters
> use
> and I think it would be separate.
>
> Damon Kline wrote:
>
> > Hey, both of your characters are as far away from their respective Max
hit
> > points as mine are. Weird.
> >
> > Yeah, Kilian does at least have a Minor Cloak of Displacement, but it
> never
> > seems to work for him.
> >
> > Sinjen has a good AC, I think it's like 26 or something like that. So
> long
> > as he doesn't wear armor. He also has two cool feats that I keep
> forgetting
> > about, but that really haven't come into play yet. The one is the Arrow
> > Deflect feat that is the one from the PHB. It's basic, but I think it
has
> > style points. The other is a similar one, but for melee weapons. It is
> > called "Grappling Block" or something like that. It is exactly the same
> > idea as in Arrow Deflect, but you block melee weapons. If he doesn't
have
> a
> > weapon in his hand and his attack roll exceeds the opponent's roll to
hit,
> > he takes the melee weapon out of their hand. Very cool style points, I
> > think. However, since he has 7 wizard levels and 4 monk levels, his
> attack
> > bonus SUCKS!!!
> >
> > OH! That brings me to a question, but I think I already know the
answer.
> > When I am determining Sinjen's base attack bonus (BAB), I had the BAB
for
> > his monk levels to his wizard levels to get his total BAB. However,
what
> > about his unarmed attack bonus for being a monk? That follows the same
> > pattern as his BAB for a monk, but you get an extra attack when you can
> > subtract three and get a positive number instead of five. Would I add
his
> > wizard BAB to his monk's unarmed attack bonus to get his total unarmed
> > attack bonus? Or, is his unarmed attack bonus ONLY based on his monk
> > levels?
> >
> > My feeling is that it is based ONLY on his monk levels and that is how I
> > have been doing it thus far. I just wanted to make sure that was right.
> > Here is how I thought it out: If Baish goes up a level and decides to
> > become a 1st level monk/15th level fighter, would it make more sense
that
> > his unarmed attack bonus is +1 (that of a first level monk) or
> > +16/+13/+10/+7/+4/+1, which is what it would be if he were adding his
> > fighter levels to his monk levels to determine the unarmed attack bonus?
> >
> > On one hand, it makes sense for it to be +1, because he is only a first
> > level monk. But on the other hand, he does have 15 levels of experience
> > under his belt and he knows how to fight. Should that count towards his
> > unarmed attack bonus? I don't know. I don't think so, but I wanted to
> get
> > some opinions.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:59 PM
> > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
> >
> > Ilana has 82. Her max is 88, so I'm right with you as far as lucky
in
> > hit
> > points. Actually, Quincy's max is 60, so he isn't bad off. He just has
a
> > poor
> > constitution.
> > We need to work on Kilian's AC. Ilana's sucks as well, but she
isn't
> > usually in melee; he is. Maybe we can find some cool items.
> >
> > Damon Kline wrote:
> >
> > > So she IS 12th! Well, John, you can add after all! Wow though, only
74
> > hit
> > > points? I think Kilian has exactly 100. Which is almost maximum for
> his
> > > level and Constitution bonus. And I think Sinjen has either 81 or 87,
> > > again, this is almost max for his level, classes and Constitution
bonus.
> > >
> > > Of course, Kilian has needed the hit points, since up until this past
> > > Wednesday, his AC has been 15. It's 20 now, thankfully.
> > >
> > > I must just have really good rolls. Kilian's maximum possible is 110
> and
> > > Sinjen's is 93.
> > >
> > > How many hit points does Illana have?
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Matt McKeehan [mailto:matt.mckeehan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:49 PM
> > > To: 'dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
> > >
> > > Yeah sonya only has 74 hit points...
> > >
> > > Matt Mckeehan
> > > DJS Citrix LAN Supervisor
> > > Admin Office of The PA Courts
> > > PA Supreme Court
> > > (717)795-2063
> > > (717)514-9446 mobile
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:35 PM
> > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
> > >
> > > Actually, he isn't the highest level member of the group. Sonya
is
> > also
> > > 12th level.
> > > I wouldn't worry about it. He will not be overpowering. Most of
> his
> > > spells
> > > do smaller amounts of damage, and he only has 50 hit points. He's not
> too
> > > tough
> > > as a character.
> > >
> > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > >
> > > > He is the highest level member of the group. That is a good idea.
> > > (Taking
> > > > non-damaging spells at first level.) The only exception is usually
> > magic
> > > > missile. But most damaging spells at that level have a +1 per level
> > > damage
> > > > adjustment, with a maximum of +5. So, I certainly see what you
mean.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:27 PM
> > > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
> > > >
> > > > My goal with first level spells is to usually avoid damaging
> spells,
> > > as
> > > > they
> > > > become useless at the levels we play at. I go for things like
Spider
> > > Climb.
> > > > Quincy is 12th level, and just barely that. He won't be going
up
> > for
> > > > some
> > > > time.
> > > >
> > > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What level is Quincy? I think you mentioned it on Wednesday
night,
> > but
> > > I
> > > > > can't remember. First level is usually tough, although 3rd
edition
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > seem as bad as 2nd edition when it comes to picking spells at
> certain
> > > > > levels. I remember 2nd level being a pain in the butt to try and
> find
> > > > > spells in 2nd edition.
> > > > >
> > > > > My problem with low level spells is usually that most of them are
> the
> > > kind
> > > > > of spell that really isn't that useful, but you never know when
you
> > > might
> > > > > need something like it. Then I end up with too many choices,
trying
> > to
> > > > > figure out what type of situation we might run into that would
> require
> > > > > certain spells and that sort of thing.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:17 PM
> > > > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
> > > > >
> > > > > Quincy has four metamagic feats (Empower, Extend, Maximize and
> > > > Quicken).
> > > > > I
> > > > > hope to use them more and more as he increases in level. I'm
giving
> > the
> > > > > current
> > > > > spell list a trial period of a few adventures. Then I'll go
through
> > and
> > > > > rearrange it. My only problem is first level. I have some spell
> > slots
> > > > I'm
> > > > > less
> > > > > than happy with, but I don't know what to do with them, since I
> can't
> > > use
> > > > > any
> > > > > metamagic feats at that level.
> > > > >
> > > > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I must admit to being pretty excited to see what these guys can
> do.
> > > At
> > > > > > every spell level for Sinjen, I tried to do an equal mix of
combat
> > > > versus
> > > > > > non-combat spells. However, the non-combat spells are mostly
> > personal
> > > > > > protection spells or things that can help him specifically. I
> felt
> > > that
> > > > > > better suited his personality.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kilian on the other hand took mostly spells that could help the
> > party.
> > > > > > Either healing, summoning or other spells that could affect
either
> > the
> > > > > party
> > > > > > or their enemies. I don't know if I took any spells that he
could
> > > cast
> > > > > only
> > > > > > on himself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A maximized Vampiric Touch is a great idea. I haven't assigned
> any
> > of
> > > > > > Sinjen's Spell Secrets yet. He only gets two, but I haven't
> decided
> > > on
> > > > > > either one. I'm thinking of using the Extended Spell feat on a
> > > personal
> > > > > > defense spell like Stoneskin or Lizardskin (oriental spell).
That
> > way
> > > > it
> > > > > > would last twice as long.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was also thinking, as he goes up in level, of giving him the
> > Quicken
> > > > > Spell
> > > > > > feat, which allows you to cast a spell as a free action. That
> would
> > > be
> > > > > cool
> > > > > > to have a fireball memorized that way, because you could
> > theoretically
> > > > > cast
> > > > > > two fireballs in the same round! Cool!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 12:03 PM
> > > > > > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Character stats
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Isn't it fun to see what your characters are capable of? I
> had
> > > some
> > > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > most ludicrous spells for Quincy; who the hell would cast some
of
> > the
> > > > > things
> > > > > > he
> > > > > > took? I'm hoping that I have a nice mix of combat and
non-combat.
> > He
> > > > > does
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > some meta-magic feats, although not too many. Usually, I find a
> > level
> > > > > where
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > only have stupid spells, and see what lower level spells I can
> > replace
> > > > the
> > > > > > stupid ones with. In his case, I maximized a vampiric touch,
> since
> > > the
> > > > > > health
> > > > > > could save his life at some time.
> > > > > > That was a great idea that Jim had, using a separate
character
> > > sheet
> > > > > for
> > > > > > Kilian when in super-hero mode. :) It should make it a lot
> easier
> > > for
> > > > > you.
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > think these five will be pretty effective. Separately they are
> > flawed
> > > > and
> > > > > > wussy, but together, they are mighty!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Damon Kline wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Great minds must think alike, as I have been working on my
> > > characters
> > > > as
> > > > > > > well. Sinjen just went up a level, which makes him a 7th
level
> Wu
> > > > > Jen/4th
> > > > > > > level Monk. This gave him one extra 1st level spell and a 4th
> > level
> > > > > > spell,
> > > > > > > plus his bonus spell at 4th level, which gives him two.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, one thing I have not done much with when using
Wizards
> > are
> > > > the
> > > > > > > metamagic feats. Sinjen only has one, but I'm trying to find
a
> > way
> > > to
> > > > > use
> > > > > > > it. At this point, he can't, because it would only allow him
to
> > > > > maximize
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > 1st level spell because it requires it to be 3 levels higher.
> He
> > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > want to give up a 4th level slot just yet, since he just got
> them.
> > > > But,
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > a Wu Jen, he has a cool ability. At 3rd level and every 3
> levels
> > > > after
> > > > > > > that, he can use Spell Secret. He can choose any spell that
he
> > > knows
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > apply one of four metamagic feats to it permanently. Those
are
> > > > Enlarge
> > > > > > > spell, Extend spell, Silent spell and Still spell. They do
not
> > > > require
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > to memorize the spell at one level higher as is normally the
> case
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > effect is permanent for that spell. So, if he chooses to
apply
> > the
> > > > > silent
> > > > > > > feat to a magic missile, then any time he memorizes a magic
> > missile
> > > > > spell,
> > > > > > > it is silent. I also revamped his spell list to give him more
> of
> > an
> > > > > > > oriental feel, using some of their unique spells. I don't
know
> > that
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > will do much, since most of their spells require you to hit
and
> > the
> > > > > target
> > > > > > > gets a save, but it will look cool. This character is always
> > about
> > > > > style.
> > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I took Jim's advice and used a separate character sheet to
make
> up
> > > > > Kilian
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > a 20th level druid for when he "summons the power of his
> father".
> > > I'm
> > > > > > still
> > > > > > > in the process of picking spells, but so far he should be
pretty
> > > kick
> > > > > ass
> > > > > > > when he does this! I also changed his normal spell selection
> > > around.
> > > > > > I've
> > > > > > > wanted him to call upon nature's help by summoning animals,
but
> > they
> > > > > > always
> > > > > > > seem so useless against what we normally fight. However, I
> found
> > > > spells
> > > > > > > that I always overlooked because I couldn't figure out why you
> > would
> > > > use
> > > > > > > them. The two that I found in particular were Greater Magic
> Fang
> > > and
> > > > > > Animal
> > > > > > > Growth. So as a tactic, Kilian could use Summon Nature's Ally
V
> > to
> > > > > summon
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > Dire Lion, which is a decent animal to have around, but not
> overly
> > > > > > > threatening. Then he could cast Animal Growth on it which
> doubles
> > > its
> > > > > > size
> > > > > > > and hit dice. This increases its strength and it's base
attack
> > > bonus
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > it's damage done. It increases its hit points and armor class
> as
> > > > well.
> > > > > > > Very useful spell. Then, Greater Magic Fang grants one
natural
> > > attack
> > > > > of
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > creature a +1 for every 3 levels of the caster. Effectively
> > making
> > > > the
> > > > > > > creature able to increase its ability to hit and do damage and
> > > > override
> > > > > > > damage reduction if the bonus is high enough.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now the downside to all of this, is that it would take him 3
> > rounds
> > > to
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > this in place. Since he is the party's main fighter at this
> > point,
> > > > that
> > > > > > > might be a problem. But, we'll see how it goes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am definitely excited to play these guys!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Johnathan Detrick [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 11:31 AM
> > > > > > > To: Riders II
> > > > > > > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Character stats
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have spent the last few mornings before work going over
> > > Magnus,
> > > > > > > Quincy and Ilana, since they are the current active characters
I
> > > have.
> > > > > > > I wanted to let Jim know what changed, since he is DMing. I
> also
> > > > wanted
> > > > > > > to show that I have accomplished all of the following, in time
> > > spurts
> > > > of
> > > > > > > 15 minutes each, in just a few days. Now, I love to create
and
> > > fiddle
> > > > > > > with characters; its one of my favorite parts of the game.
But
> I
> > > have
> > > > > > > always believed it leads me to enjoy the game more; when my
> > > characters
> > > > > > > are at their best and everything is organized, I can play for
> > hours.
> > > > > > > And it's not about making them the most powerful character I
> can;
> > > it's
> > > > > > > about choosing feats, skills and spells that fit their
> > personality.
> > > > In
> > > > > > > the end, though, this does make them more effective, so the
> > results
> > > > are
> > > > > > > still positive.
> > > > > > > Ilana is now an 8th level cleric. I made no real changes
> > here.
> > > > One
> > > > > > > of the things I decided for her was to make her a utility
> cleric.
> > > > Since
> > > > > > > she won't attack, I can forget all of the offensive cleric
> spells.
> > > > > > > Instead, I'm trying to give her spells to allow her to aid the
> > group
> > > > in
> > > > > > > any situation. Spells like Water Breathing, Freedom of
> Movement,
> > > > > > > Neutralize Poison, Remove Disease, Dispel Magic, Restoration
and
> > the
> > > > > > > like should enable her to help out in a variety of areas. I
had
> > > > pretty
> > > > > > > much decided on that direction for her when I created her, and
> > it's
> > > > > > > helped me to give her purpose, and it helps me to know what to
> do
> > > with
> > > > > > > her in combat. And it fits her personality perfectly.
> > > > > > > Magnus isn't quite done yet, but as expected, he is now
21st
> > > > level.
> > > > > > > I've begun to raise him in level with the epic level book.
> Sadly,
> > > he
> > > > > > > gets very little. I need to pick an epic feat for him and I
am
> > > done.
> > > > > > > I'll let Jim know what I choose.
> > > > > > > Quincy took the most work (although it was still only
about
> 30
> > > > > > > minutes). He is one of those characters that I created a long
> > time
> > > > ago
> > > > > > > with a strong idea, and then completely forgot about. I see
him
> a
> > > lot
> > > > > > > as Giles on Buffy. He's extremely intelligent and very
> > inquisitive.
> > > > He
> > > > > > > is absolutely fascinated by undead and their like, but he
> doesn't
> > > use
> > > > > > > undead, and he doesn't support them. He has some elements of
> > > > Thaylone,
> > > > > > > in that he is looking for a group to belong to and acceptance,
> but
> > > > he's
> > > > > > > not as concerned as Thaylone is about it. He's not a bad guy,
> but
> > > he
> > > > > > > can be a little ruthless. Combine the love of knowledge from
> > > Zolkiir,
> > > > > > > with the pragmatism of D'Alleva and the quest for acceptance
of
> > > > > > > Thaylone, throw in a little of Quent's cowardice, and a dash
of
> > > > > > > prissiness, and there you have him.
> > > > > > > I had to completely overhaul his spell list. As some of
you
> > may
> > > > be
> > > > > > > aware, Necromancy (in my opinion) has some of the most useless
> > > spells
> > > > > > > out there! Yeesh! It's even harder when you remove those
> spells
> > > that
> > > > > > > animate undead. However, I decided to make up my own type of
> > > > necromancy
> > > > > > > spell list. Besides those spells that are actually
necromantic
> > > > spells,
> > > > > > > I loaded him up with cold spells. To my mind, cold is the
> element
> > > > most
> > > > > > > associated with the dead (and please, let me know if you think
> I'm
> > > off
> > > > > > > base), so I removed all fire spells and now all of his
offensive
> > > > spells
> > > > > > > are cold. To me, he seems pretty cool, and I think his new
> spell
> > > list
> > > > > > > will be very helpful! I can't wait to use him!
> > > > > > > So that's where my characters stand, ready to go for next
> > week.
> > > I
> > > > > > > can't wait!
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