[ddots-l] Re: Windows 10 and Sonar producer 8.5 with CakeTalk 8.8

  • From: Phil Muir <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:40:01 +0000

Think people would still like to be able to use Sonar as it has a really nice
feature set. Having said that, looks like the most accessible DAW software on
Windows at the moment is Reaper withe the osara plug-in. I heare Reaper is
looking promising on the Mac too. The accesible solution for using that is
totally free too. May end up looking at this in the future however for me at
least that will mean learning new software and not sure that I can be bothered
as my workflow in Sonar 8.5.3 works really well for me :-)

On 26 October 2015 09:21:24 GMT+00:00, Aidan <aidan.smarttalk@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I just have one question. If its true that CakeWalk don't want to
focus on accessibility anymore, why do people stil want to write new
scripts for a new sonar? Shouldn't we target a different daw? I really
wish that fl studio was accessible enough for those who don't need to
do heavy pro stuff in a pro invirement.

On 26/10/2015, Phil Muir <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well you can always get the classic start menu back. Using Classic
Start
Menu here in Windows 7 and it works in Windows 8 and 10. It's free
software
too :-)

On 26 October 2015 02:28:11 GMT+00:00, D!J!X!
<megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Microsoft is not at fault here; honestly in order to make most of the
UI improvements they have, they had to ditch the old engine and start
with a new one, especially for using apps. Just like what they had to
do with the start menu, taskbar, notification/tray, menu bars which
are
mostly ribbons now, and many other core windows functions. Anyone
who’s
tried windows 8 and above knows how different things are from
windows
7 and before. They’d assume the screen readers and other technologies
would make whatever changes to keep up to date with their OS.



Remember, and this is something of note to all those who just want to
jump on the windows 10 wagon because it’s the latest and greatest,
Windows 10 is more about Microsoft pushing for the cloud and their
ecosystem and gaining more converts than anything else, which is why
it’s mostly free! They’ve gone as far as placing ads on the start
menu
to their app store. Yes they can be disabled, but just goes to show
how
bad they want people to come back to them lol. And just like these,
there are other caveats! The many privacy concerns are just a small
portion.



Under the hood there are many improvements, especially to get windows
10 to play nicely with tablets and phones and other such devices as a
universal OS (continuum). This requires more portable and modular
code
than the old versions of windows did. With it come new issues and new
problems, both for accessibility and perhaps DAW usage (especially
when
it comes to a production environment). Also remember that Sonar’s
code
and compile is a couple years back now, and while it was optimized
for
Windows 7, it might or might not work as well under windows 10.



When I say work, with regards to Sonar or any scripts, I mean fully
work, where I’m not limited when tasking the system with heavy
projects, or where the performance won’t be less than what I’m
getting
now with my current setup.

To me it doesn’t matter if both ct and sonar run under 10, if either
windows 10 gives worst performance as a DAW OS (which I’ll be
fully/theroughly testing after the November update, which is suppose
to fix some pending issues), or if HSC can’t reliably detect colors
and
run my sets, which in these days, third party plugs like kontakt and
superior drummer, omnisphere are only accessible through the use of
HSC. Or if the screen reader access solution can’t work correctly
under
all circumstances. And even if I can hack Windows to make these
things
work, what good is it if the rest of Windows then becomes unusable
because I removed a crucial functionality?

So for me personally, a fully working system with more gains than I
already have is more important then just getting it working with the
latest OS.



Take for example the issue with OS X El Capitan and office 2016. How
many people who use office for daily work found themselves with the
short end of the stick because they wanted the latest and greatest OS
from Apple, and were surprised to find what a horrific experience it
was with MS Office, as it constantly crashed and they couldn’t get
any
work done.

Or ask Adobe Photoshop users if they were happy for the last month
before Apple fixed the issues with the 10.11.1 update, which also
kept
them from in most cases doing anything productive with the software.
Those who’s paychecks depended on these applications switched back to
Yosemite in a flash!

One of my clients who took my advice not to upgrade was very thankful
once the horrible Photoshop reports started showing up.



It’s a never ending cycle. There’s gear lust, and software lust too
LOL. I imagine in a month or 2 complaints and requests will come in
because FS is only baking the latest and greatest windows 10 features
into JAWS17, which will force many to upgrade, but who’s to say if
CT/JSonar will work well under 17 for everyone, given the various
scripting changes that FS is making. So where does the cycle end?
Then
we’ll want CT to work under jaws17.



And since windows 10 is different by design, where they will continue
to update it as oppose to releasing new OS’s, what happens when
something breaks because of an update? And yes, last time I checked,
these major OS updates will be mandatory, especially for those with
the
free upgrade; MS already started doing mandatory updates (windows 8),
so many believe this statement to be true.



Anyways, I personally prefer a stable and working environment that is
solid, as oppose to messing around with unstable stuff when it comes
to
serious work. If windows 10 can provide this for us given the current
access situation good. If not, then stick with what you’ve got until
something better comes along; it will sooner or later. At least we
can
still make music and release pro productions to the market which are
as
good as anyone else’s. Could we say that 10-15 years ago?



And to clarify, I’m not against Windows 10 or upgrading or improving
or
going forward, but my personal opinion is that if it’s to be done, it
should be done right and in a way where we can still progress forward
without having to reinvent the wheel. So we don’t find ourselves in
the
same issue we are now with access. These things will obviously take
time and lots of ideas and innovation, but it can be done. I know
many
are getting desperate perhaps because it seems that we are stuck, but
don’t let that stop you from using what you’ve currently have on
hand.
Turn that desperation into creativity!

Ask Neville if he’s stopped recording and releasing his music just
because He’s only got sonar 8.5 under windows 7, or if Phil has
stopped
his productions because he’s on Sonar 8 with a 2012 macbook, or if
Steve has stopped developing sets just because we can’t access
windows
10? ;)



Regards, D!J!x!



From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Neville
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 8:56 PM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 10 and Sonar producer 8.5 with
CakeTalk
8.8



What do you guys think the people at Microsoft would do if someone
from
the community of blind musicians could make them aware of our
problem?
Has this been done already?





May the Peace of God which passes all understanding guard your heart
and mind in Christ Jesus. God bless you!



Music Soft Sacred and Soulful



Visit me at http://nevillepeter.com <http://nevillepeter.com/blog/>

My Store http://nevillepeter.com/store/

Email me at mailto:neville@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Join the discussion at http://nevillepeter.com/blog/

Watch Me at http://youtube.com/nevillepeter777



From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of D!J!X!
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 6:22 PM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 10 and Sonar producer 8.5 with
CakeTalk
8.8



Hi Kevin, having done some research on this, I was under the
impression
that after windows 8 there can’t be any authentic classic theme,
because Microsoft actually removed the classic engine. There are some
hacks to enable it, but they crash allot of the modern apps and basic
windows applications like Explorer. The other choice when using a
similar scheme that resembles the colors is to use the high contrast
engine, however this is not a “true” classic theme with all the
components of the original, so not sure if CakeTalking or HsC would
work properly under such conditions. From what I read not all the
colors are the same either.



I’m assuming that DD has tested it’s products under Windows 8/8.1/10,
and they haven’t found a working solution that works without any
hacks
or crashes, which is why they don’t support use under these OS’s.



This is the info I’ve found on the web about this, and haven’t had
time
to test theroughly myself due to lack of time. However I don’t think
copying the theme file is enough if Microsoft has in fact removed the
classic theme engine.



HTH, D!J!X!



From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kevin Gibbs
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 5:26 PM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 10 and Sonar producer 8.5 with
CakeTalk
8.8



Has anyone actually done that? That is, has anyone actually imported
the windows classic theme from XP or Windows 7 to windows 10? Can
that
actually be done? If it's possible, I'm surprised no one has tried it
yet.

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 24, 2015, at 3:50 PM, Autery gmail <autery12@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:autery12@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote:





That problem of not having windows classic in windows 10, can easily
be
fix.



Secondly, the correct demensions for Sonar producer8.5 and CakeTalk
8.8
Do not exist in windows 10. This is true!!!



However, can be fix: Solution is simple,



1. Go to your old window and copy the classic theme and transfer it
to
windows 10.



note:

make sure you place it in the correct folder and yourSonar producer
8.5
and CakeTalk 8.8 will run just as windows 7.



Have a nice day recording everyone!!! Bless.



Autery Weekes.

From: Mike Tyo <mailto:mtyo@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 4:24 PM

To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 10 and Sonar producer 8.5 with
CakeTalk
8.8



Thanks for your insights, Phil. I knew that there was a lot that has
to
happen to make accessibility possible, especially in Superior Drummer
2. What you've done there is remarkable; and I'm sure you'd like to
make more of the features accessible as well - especially the
parameters for adjusting things like envelopes and so forth on the
drums. I don't know if that's even possible at this point; but you've
done a great job with what you're able to do with it now.







Mike







----- Original Message -----

From: Phil Muir <mailto:info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 02:56

Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 10 and Sonar producer 8.5 with
CakeTalk
8.8



Sonar 8.5.3 runs well under Windows 10. Cake Talking will run
however,
there will be issues with colour detection as there is no classic
theme
in Windows 10.



I also want to thank David Pinto for developing Cake Talking and in
particular Bill and others like George for actively encouraging Cake
Talking development. It's still one of the very best available
accessible solutions for using multitrack audio and MIDI software on
the planet.

<Rest snipped.>

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