Microsoft is not at fault here; honestly in order to make most of the UI
improvements they have, they had to ditch the old engine and start with a new
one, especially for using apps. Just like what they had to do with the start
menu, taskbar, notification/tray, menu bars which are mostly ribbons now, and
many other core windows functions. Anyone who’s tried windows 8 and above
knows how different things are from windows 7 and before. They’d assume the
screen readers and other technologies would make whatever changes to keep up to
date with their OS.
Remember, and this is something of note to all those who just want to jump on
the windows 10 wagon because it’s the latest and greatest, Windows 10 is more
about Microsoft pushing for the cloud and their ecosystem and gaining more
converts than anything else, which is why it’s mostly free! They’ve gone as far
as placing ads on the start menu to their app store. Yes they can be disabled,
but just goes to show how bad they want people to come back to them lol. And
just like these, there are other caveats! The many privacy concerns are just a
small portion.
Under the hood there are many improvements, especially to get windows 10 to
play nicely with tablets and phones and other such devices as a universal OS
(continuum). This requires more portable and modular code than the old versions
of windows did. With it come new issues and new problems, both for
accessibility and perhaps DAW usage (especially when it comes to a production
environment). Also remember that Sonar’s code and compile is a couple years
back now, and while it was optimized for Windows 7, it might or might not work
as well under windows 10.
When I say work, with regards to Sonar or any scripts, I mean fully work, where
I’m not limited when tasking the system with heavy projects, or where the
performance won’t be less than what I’m getting now with my current setup.
To me it doesn’t matter if both ct and sonar run under 10, if either windows 10
gives worst performance as a DAW OS (which I’ll be fully/theroughly testing
after the November update, which is suppose to fix some pending issues), or if
HSC can’t reliably detect colors and run my sets, which in these days, third
party plugs like kontakt and superior drummer, omnisphere are only accessible
through the use of HSC. Or if the screen reader access solution can’t work
correctly under all circumstances. And even if I can hack Windows to make these
things work, what good is it if the rest of Windows then becomes unusable
because I removed a crucial functionality?
So for me personally, a fully working system with more gains than I already
have is more important then just getting it working with the latest OS.
Take for example the issue with OS X El Capitan and office 2016. How many
people who use office for daily work found themselves with the short end of the
stick because they wanted the latest and greatest OS from Apple, and were
surprised to find what a horrific experience it was with MS Office, as it
constantly crashed and they couldn’t get any work done.
Or ask Adobe Photoshop users if they were happy for the last month before Apple
fixed the issues with the 10.11.1 update, which also kept them from in most
cases doing anything productive with the software. Those who’s paychecks
depended on these applications switched back to Yosemite in a flash!
One of my clients who took my advice not to upgrade was very thankful once the
horrible Photoshop reports started showing up.
It’s a never ending cycle. There’s gear lust, and software lust too LOL. I
imagine in a month or 2 complaints and requests will come in because FS is only
baking the latest and greatest windows 10 features into JAWS17, which will
force many to upgrade, but who’s to say if CT/JSonar will work well under 17
for everyone, given the various scripting changes that FS is making. So where
does the cycle end? Then we’ll want CT to work under jaws17.
And since windows 10 is different by design, where they will continue to update
it as oppose to releasing new OS’s, what happens when something breaks because
of an update? And yes, last time I checked, these major OS updates will be
mandatory, especially for those with the free upgrade; MS already started doing
mandatory updates (windows 8), so many believe this statement to be true.
Anyways, I personally prefer a stable and working environment that is solid, as
oppose to messing around with unstable stuff when it comes to serious work. If
windows 10 can provide this for us given the current access situation good. If
not, then stick with what you’ve got until something better comes along; it
will sooner or later. At least we can still make music and release pro
productions to the market which are as good as anyone else’s. Could we say that
10-15 years ago?
And to clarify, I’m not against Windows 10 or upgrading or improving or going
forward, but my personal opinion is that if it’s to be done, it should be done
right and in a way where we can still progress forward without having to
reinvent the wheel. So we don’t find ourselves in the same issue we are now
with access. These things will obviously take time and lots of ideas and
innovation, but it can be done. I know many are getting desperate perhaps
because it seems that we are stuck, but don’t let that stop you from using what
you’ve currently have on hand. Turn that desperation into creativity!
Ask Neville if he’s stopped recording and releasing his music just because He’s
only got sonar 8.5 under windows 7, or if Phil has stopped his productions
because he’s on Sonar 8 with a 2012 macbook, or if Steve has stopped developing
sets just because we can’t access windows 10? ;)
Regards, D!J!x!
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Neville
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 8:56 PM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 10 and Sonar producer 8.5 with CakeTalk 8.8
What do you guys think the people at Microsoft would do if someone from the
community of blind musicians could make them aware of our problem? Has this
been done already?
May the Peace of God which passes all understanding guard your heart and mind
in Christ Jesus. God bless you!
Music Soft Sacred and Soulful
Visit me at http://nevillepeter.com <http://nevillepeter.com/blog/>
My Store http://nevillepeter.com/store/
Email me at mailto:neville@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Join the discussion at http://nevillepeter.com/blog/
Watch Me at http://youtube.com/nevillepeter777
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of D!J!X!
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 6:22 PM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 10 and Sonar producer 8.5 with CakeTalk 8.8
Hi Kevin, having done some research on this, I was under the impression that
after windows 8 there can’t be any authentic classic theme, because Microsoft
actually removed the classic engine. There are some hacks to enable it, but
they crash allot of the modern apps and basic windows applications like
Explorer. The other choice when using a similar scheme that resembles the
colors is to use the high contrast engine, however this is not a “true” classic
theme with all the components of the original, so not sure if CakeTalking or
HsC would work properly under such conditions. From what I read not all the
colors are the same either.
I’m assuming that DD has tested it’s products under Windows 8/8.1/10, and they
haven’t found a working solution that works without any hacks or crashes, which
is why they don’t support use under these OS’s.
This is the info I’ve found on the web about this, and haven’t had time to test
theroughly myself due to lack of time. However I don’t think copying the theme
file is enough if Microsoft has in fact removed the classic theme engine.
HTH, D!J!X!
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kevin Gibbs
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 5:26 PM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 10 and Sonar producer 8.5 with CakeTalk 8.8
Has anyone actually done that? That is, has anyone actually imported the
windows classic theme from XP or Windows 7 to windows 10? Can that actually be
done? If it's possible, I'm surprised no one has tried it yet.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 24, 2015, at 3:50 PM, Autery gmail <autery12@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:autery12@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote:
That problem of not having windows classic in windows 10, can easily be fix.
Secondly, the correct demensions for Sonar producer8.5 and CakeTalk 8.8 Do not
exist in windows 10. This is true!!!
However, can be fix: Solution is simple,
1. Go to your old window and copy the classic theme and transfer it to windows
10.
note:
make sure you place it in the correct folder and yourSonar producer 8.5 and
CakeTalk 8.8 will run just as windows 7.
Have a nice day recording everyone!!! Bless.
Autery Weekes.
From: Mike Tyo <mailto:mtyo@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 4:24 PM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 10 and Sonar producer 8.5 with CakeTalk 8.8
Thanks for your insights, Phil. I knew that there was a lot that has to happen
to make accessibility possible, especially in Superior Drummer 2. What you've
done there is remarkable; and I'm sure you'd like to make more of the features
accessible as well - especially the parameters for adjusting things like
envelopes and so forth on the drums. I don't know if that's even possible at
this point; but you've done a great job with what you're able to do with it now.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Muir <mailto:info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 02:56
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Windows 10 and Sonar producer 8.5 with CakeTalk 8.8
Sonar 8.5.3 runs well under Windows 10. Cake Talking will run however, there
will be issues with colour detection as there is no classic theme in Windows 10.
I also want to thank David Pinto for developing Cake Talking and in particular
Bill and others like George for actively encouraging Cake Talking development.
It's still one of the very best available accessible solutions for using
multitrack audio and MIDI software on the planet.
<Rest snipped.>
