In Australia - ASIS = CIA whereas ASIO = FBI in Oz in the context of intelligence services. No I have no idea what they get up to regrettably I am not in the loop. :-) . In each case the attorney general overseas them but each has its own head. PS I don't trust the current attorney general on the political level but come the next election he will be gone I hope. I just make the point that intelligence services in this country and perhaps yours operate to protect their national interests rather than the governments of the day that come and go. Conversely in contrast if you live in say Iran or North Korea and posted something anti whoever the leader is then expect a knock on the door. I can and have posted comments that I think the current PM Kevin Rudd is an idiot and Julia Gillard former PM is a corrupt liar and soon to be charged for a number of offences (See http://michaelsmithnews.com) and so far no one has smashed my door down and taken be for reeducation or worse aka North Korea. Sorry - Hang on there is someone knocking on the door. From: cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeremy Compton Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2013 9:45 PM To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [cryptome] Re: The NSA snooping. Yes, this is a Politics Issue. The NSA is a state govt agency whose job it is to acquire information of value to the govt who pays for it. By State, l mean a government (Such as the Rudd or Key Government) that can enforce its rule within a boundary which it has contol over, such as Australia and NZ. This is a pretty good defintion of a state, who are elected by the people. There are two kind of Intelligence communities, the kind that keep a regime in power or the kind that protect our democratic liberities like those in Westiminster style governments. The issue here is how this agency is used and against whom and for what reasons. I have probably heard about as much as you on the Edward Snowden case. Do we know what ASIS gets up to apart from what is on their website? No, we should not because then they would not be secret. Australia, US, NZ, UK and Canada are members of a group of countries who share information as to what is going on around them. If, any of what Snowden shared is valid then it was useful to those of us who were surveilled. I thought Snowdens actions showed a great lack of wisdom, for a guy that is alleged to be quite intelligent. _____ From: cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of System Rat [systemrat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2013 11:18 p.m. To: cryptome@s ifreelists.org Subject: [cryptome] Re: The NSA snooping. Perhaps I am missing something fundamental here but you guys are getting upset that the NSA is doing its job in maintaining an ability to intercept communications be that by whatever means Morse to smoke signals or sharks with lasers (Dr. Evil Austin Powers). I am not a terrorist nor would I disclose secrets that might harm the state or its allies if I knew any that is. (By the state I mean people like you and me that live there NOT the current political party.) Any NSA or local equivalent analyst would most lightly go off on stress leave if forced to monitor my online activity due to boredom. If I live in some repressive regime for example the former east Germany then I might fear a knock on the door. BUT on the other hand the NSA or its local equivalent via technical means have the ability to target and monitor the bad guys by definition for example Al Qaeda is that a bad thing ? Do you have some proof for example Al Qaeda is not using a local ISP near you ? The counter argument to objecting to them monitoring is events like 9/11 represent a failure in identifying the threat. Perhaps Al Qaeda's tradecraft was not to disclose any useful information in communications that might be intercepted. I hope any and every means is being employed to help prevent a repeat of that atrocity now. I would not trust the current government of my country to run the chook raffle and there are many corrupt elements in the current government without doubt but I seriously doubt the men and women in the security services here or at NSA are anything but seeking to do the best for their respective countries. Not sure if this is real but in the movies I've seem a poster " I god we trust everyone else we monitor"