[bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
- From: "Doug Maples" <wdmaples@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 03:21:05 -0600
Thanks to both of you!
When I am describing an "image" I will put the [ followed by "image:" and
then describe what I am looking at. If it is a graph, I would say it is a
graph and then describe that graph. The same for charts, sketches,
photographs or whatever. I just used the image: to let people know that
something is coming up that is not part of the text. Pretty simple to do in
a description.
Thanks for clarifying!
- Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Debby Franson
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 4:53 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
Hi Mayrie and everyone!
Well stated. I was thinking of pictures when responding to Doug's post,
but, I, like you also want to know what kind of chart it is, whether it's a
picture or anything that will make what it is that is being described
instantly clear to the reader. They make it clear in NLS books, so we
should do the same.
I also want to know whether text is in a box. That means it's important.
Debby
At 05:17 PM 11/21/2011, Mayrie ReNae wrote
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o =
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m =
>"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml";>
>HI Doug,
>
>I agree with you. To further the discussion, using the word "image" to
>preface the description of anything that couldn't be represented was also
>shortsighted upon the part of the creator of these instructions. I want
>to know if the description that I am reading is the description of a
>picture, a chart, if a chart, what kind of chart, (pie, bar graph, table,
>etc) or whatever. "image" just doesn't do it. If the word "image" seems
>necessary to later extract what the tools cannot now extract to use with
>the poet tool, then more words might be necessary. For example: if the
>word "image must be used, [Image: Picture of a frog on a rock.] We need to
>know what's there, as you say, Doug.
>
>Mayrie
>
>
>
>
>----------
>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Maples
>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 1:13 PM
>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
>
>"Simpler and shorter is better" may be somebody's consensus, but
>definitely not from the point of the readers. Having done so many books
>for children with image descriptions and captions, there is no way that
>you could leave off the "image" or "caption" and expect the reader to have
>a clue what they are actually reading. Anyone who is not a Bookshare
>volunteer will have no idea what the words in the quotes means. How can
>they? If you are not told something is an image or a caption, how are you
>to have any idea what you are reading? I just don't get it.
>
>
>
>Whether you're site reading, using a screen reader or braille, it leads to
>mass confusion. I have to say that I had not seen the finished product of
>a book processed through Benetech's Poet tool, but I certainly hope that
>there is some way to let readers know that the words they run into are not
>part of the text from the book. Descriptions should be easily understood
>to be a picture description. Likewise, picture captions should be just as
>easily understood to be a caption.
>
>
>
>I think if we (Bookshare volunteers) keep this discussion up, we will
>understand what the text we run into after we have finished really is. But
>we have to remember we are not scanning and proofreading and using
>different notations for various parts of a book just for our
>understanding. What we put down on the page is going to be read by
>hundreds or thousands of Bookshare subscribers. How can we expect them to
>know what they are reading or listening to if we don't give them a cue
>with a simple word like "image" or "caption"?
>
>
>
>Poet will do whatever it does, but until then I think we have to let the
>readers know just what it is they are reading.
>
>
>
>Possibly just one man's opinion,
>
>- Doug
>
>
>
>From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott Rains
>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:49 AM
>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
>
>
>
>This discussion is good for purposes of clarification. The consensus has
>been that simpler and shorter is better thus avoidance of "image" after
>the opening square bracket.
>
>
>
>At the same time, keep in mind that bracketed captions or image
>descriptions inside the text will fade away. As we adopt the image
>description methodology behind Benetech's Poet tool this material will no
>longer disrupt the book text. It will be embedded in the .xml. That way
>the DAISY reader can be set to show or hide the added material. Depending
>on the manufacturer these third party products may or may not alert the
>reader with a phrase like, "Start caption."
>
>
>
>Scott Rains
>
>Bookshare
>
>To: "<mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
><<mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
>
>
>
>Hi, makes perfect sense to me. Call the thing what it is. If the caption
>is a caption, why not just say "picture caption" to get rid of confusion?
>Regards, Kim Friedman.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
><mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>bksvol-discuss-bounce@freelists
.org
>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Maples
>Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 8:02 PM
>To: <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Cc: 'Scott Rains'
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
>
>I totally agree with Valerie. When I see something inside of brackets with
>the image: at the beginning, I would just assume that whatever is inside
>of quotes has something to do with the image description. I would never
>know that was a caption. I firmly believe that the caption should have
>caption: before it. Otherwise, how are you going to know?
>
>
>
>- Doug
>
>
>
>From:
><mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>bksvol-discuss-bounce@freelists
.org
>[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Valerie Maples
>Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 4:58 PM
>To: <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Qustion on manual
>
>
>
>Vivian mentioned she had found in the volunteer manual to simply enclose a
>caption in quotes, as mentioned here:
>
>
>
><https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/4.8+Y.+Format+for+image+description+
tags#4.8Y.Formatforimagedescriptiontags-formattouseforimagedescriptionswithc
aptions>https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/4.8+Y.+Format+for+image+descri
ption+tags#4.8Y.Formatforimagedescriptiontags-formattouseforimagedescription
swithcaptions
>
>
>
>The example given is:
>
> [image: A young boy in mid-air as he dives off a pier into a small lake.
> Already in the water is an older man, standing and smiling.
>"Having fun on hot days."]
>
>
>But I have always done it like this:
>
>
>
> [image: A young boy in mid-air as he dives off a pier into a small lake.
> Already in the water is an older man, standing and smiling.
>caption: Having fun on hot days.]
>
>
>
>I can develop new habits, but to me, the other is more clear, espcially if
>the caption is a quote already in quotation marks. Is there a reason for
>the change?
>
>
>
>Valerie
>
>
>
>Keep up with Nichole's recovery:
><http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/nicholemaples>http://www.caringbridge.or
g/visit/nicholemaples
>
--
mailto:<the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
--
The tongue of the wise uses knowledge rightly, But the mouth of fools pours
forth foolishness.
Proverbs 15:2 NKJV
"Teach me, and I will hold my tongue
; Cause me to understand wherein I have erred.
Job 6:24 NKJV
To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of
available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of
available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
Other related posts:
