"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m =
"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml";>
HI Doug,
I agree with you. To further the discussion, using the word "image" to
preface the description of anything that couldn't be represented was also
shortsighted upon the part of the creator of these instructions. I want
to know if the description that I am reading is the description of a
picture, a chart, if a chart, what kind of chart, (pie, bar graph, table,
etc) or whatever. "image" just doesn't do it. If the word "image" seems
necessary to later extract what the tools cannot now extract to use with
the poet tool, then more words might be necessary. For example: if the
word "image must be used, [Image: Picture of a frog on a rock.] We need to
know what's there, as you say, Doug.
Mayrie
----------
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Maples
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 1:13 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
"Simpler and shorter is better" may be somebody's consensus, but
definitely not from the point of the readers. Having done so many books
for children with image descriptions and captions, there is no way that
you could leave off the "image" or "caption" and expect the reader to have
a clue what they are actually reading. Anyone who is not a Bookshare
volunteer will have no idea what the words in the quotes means. How can
they? If you are not told something is an image or a caption, how are you
to have any idea what you are reading? I just don't get it.
Whether you're site reading, using a screen reader or braille, it leads to
mass confusion. I have to say that I had not seen the finished product of
a book processed through Benetech's Poet tool, but I certainly hope that
there is some way to let readers know that the words they run into are not
part of the text from the book. Descriptions should be easily understood
to be a picture description. Likewise, picture captions should be just as
easily understood to be a caption.
I think if we (Bookshare volunteers) keep this discussion up, we will
understand what the text we run into after we have finished really is. But
we have to remember we are not scanning and proofreading and using
different notations for various parts of a book just for our
understanding. What we put down on the page is going to be read by
hundreds or thousands of Bookshare subscribers. How can we expect them to
know what they are reading or listening to if we don't give them a cue
with a simple word like "image" or "caption"?
Poet will do whatever it does, but until then I think we have to let the
readers know just what it is they are reading.
Possibly just one man's opinion,
? Doug
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott Rains
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:49 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
This discussion is good for purposes of clarification. The consensus has
been that simpler and shorter is better thus avoidance of "image" after
the opening square bracket.
At the same time, keep in mind that bracketed captions or image
descriptions inside the text will fade away. As we adopt the image
description methodology behind Benetech's Poet tool this material will no
longer disrupt the book text. It will be embedded in the .xml. That way
the DAISY reader can be set to show or hide the added material. Depending
on the manufacturer these third party products may or may not alert the
reader with a phrase like, "Start caption."
Scott Rains
Bookshare
To: "<mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
<<mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
Hi, makes perfect sense to me. Call the thing what it is. If the caption
is a caption, why not just say "picture caption" to get rid of confusion?
Regards, Kim Friedman.
-----Original Message-----
From:
<mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Maples
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 8:02 PM
To: <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: 'Scott Rains'
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
I totally agree with Valerie. When I see something inside of brackets with
the image: at the beginning, I would just assume that whatever is inside
of quotes has something to do with the image description. I would never
know that was a caption. I firmly believe that the caption should have
caption: before it. Otherwise, how are you going to know?
? Doug
From:
<mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Valerie Maples
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 4:58 PM
To: <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Qustion on manual
Vivian mentioned she had found in the volunteer manual to simply enclose a
caption in quotes, as mentioned here:
<https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/4.8+Y.+Format+for+image+description+tags#4.8Y.Formatforimagedescriptiontags-formattouseforimagedescriptionswithcaptions>https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/4.8+Y.+Format+for+image+description+tags#4.8Y.Formatforimagedescriptiontags-formattouseforimagedescriptionswithcaptions
The example given is:
[image: A young boy in mid-air as he dives off a pier into a small lake.
Already in the water is an older man, standing and smiling.
"Having fun on hot days."]
But I have always done it like this:
[image: A young boy in mid-air as he dives off a pier into a small lake.
Already in the water is an older man, standing and smiling.
caption: Having fun on hot days.]
I can develop new habits, but to me, the other is more clear, espcially if
the caption is a quote already in quotation marks. Is there a reason for
the change?
Valerie
Keep up with Nichole's recovery:
<http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/nicholemaples>http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/nicholemaples
