[bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
- From: "Kim Friedman" <kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:30:47 -0800
Hi, Doug, are you saying that image description just puts captions in
quotes and that's it? I think that is rather stupid if such is the case.
There should be words to let the reader know what is going on. Example:
Map of upper Slabovia" or "Chart of ..." or "Caption reads ..." or
"picture of ..." Image doesn't do a thing for the reader. Regards, Kim
Friedman.
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Maples
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 1:13 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
"Simpler and shorter is better" may be somebody's consensus, but
definitely not from the point of the readers. Having done so many books
for children with image descriptions and captions, there is no way that
you could leave off the "image" or "caption" and expect the reader to
have a clue what they are actually reading. Anyone who is not a
Bookshare volunteer will have no idea what the words in the quotes
means. How can they? If you are not told something is an image or a
caption, how are you to have any idea what you are reading? I just don't
get it.
Whether you're site reading, using a screen reader or braille, it leads
to mass confusion. I have to say that I had not seen the finished
product of a book processed through Benetech's Poet tool, but I
certainly hope that there is some way to let readers know that the words
they run into are not part of the text from the book. Descriptions
should be easily understood to be a picture description. Likewise,
picture captions should be just as easily understood to be a caption.
I think if we (Bookshare volunteers) keep this discussion up, we will
understand what the text we run into after we have finished really is.
But we have to remember we are not scanning and proofreading and using
different notations for various parts of a book just for our
understanding. What we put down on the page is going to be read by
hundreds or thousands of Bookshare subscribers. How can we expect them
to know what they are reading or listening to if we don't give them a
cue with a simple word like "image" or "caption"?
Poet will do whatever it does, but until then I think we have to let the
readers know just what it is they are reading.
Possibly just one man's opinion,
- Doug
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott Rains
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:49 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
This discussion is good for purposes of clarification. The consensus has
been that simpler and shorter is better thus avoidance of "image" after
the opening square bracket.
At the same time, keep in mind that bracketed captions or image
descriptions inside the text will fade away. As we adopt the image
description methodology behind Benetech's Poet tool this material will
no longer disrupt the book text. It will be embedded in the .xml. That
way the DAISY reader can be set to show or hide the added material.
Depending on the manufacturer these third party products may or may not
alert the reader with a phrase like, "Start caption."
Scott Rains
Bookshare
To: "bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
Hi, makes perfect sense to me. Call the thing what it is. If the caption
is a caption, why not just say "picture caption" to get rid of
confusion? Regards, Kim Friedman.
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Maples
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 8:02 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: 'Scott Rains'
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual
I totally agree with Valerie. When I see something inside of brackets
with the image: at the beginning, I would just assume that whatever is
inside of quotes has something to do with the image description. I would
never know that was a caption. I firmly believe that the caption should
have caption: before it. Otherwise, how are you going to know?
- Doug
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Valerie Maples
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 4:58 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Qustion on manual
Vivian mentioned she had found in the volunteer manual to simply enclose
a caption in quotes, as mentioned here:
https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/4.8+Y.+Format+for+image+descriptio
n+tags#4.8Y.Formatforimagedescriptiontags-formattouseforimagedescription
swithcaptions
The example given is:
[image: A young boy in mid-air as he dives off a pier into a small
lake. Already in the water is an older man, standing and smiling.
"Having fun on hot days."]
But I have always done it like this:
[image: A young boy in mid-air as he dives off a pier into a small
lake. Already in the water is an older man, standing and smiling.
caption: Having fun on hot days.]
I can develop new habits, but to me, the other is more clear, espcially
if the caption is a quote already in quotation marks. Is there a reason
for the change?
Valerie
Keep up with Nichole's recovery:
http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/nicholemaples
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