[bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual

  • From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:17:43 -0800

HI Doug,
 
I agree with you.  To further the discussion, using the word "image" to
preface the description of anything that couldn't be represented was also
shortsighted upon the part of the creator of these instructions.  I want to
know if the description that I am reading is the description of a picture, a
chart, if a chart, what kind of chart, (pie, bar graph, table, etc) or
whatever.  "image" just doesn't do it.  If the word "image" seems necessary
to later extract what the tools cannot now extract to use with the poet
tool, then more words might be necessary. For example: if the word "image
must be used, [Image: Picture of a frog on a rock.] We need to know what's
there, as you say, Doug.
 
Mayrie
 
 

  _____  

From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Maples
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 1:13 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual



"Simpler and shorter is better" may be somebody's consensus, but definitely
not from the point of the readers. Having done so many books for children
with image descriptions and captions, there is no way that you could leave
off the "image" or "caption" and expect the reader to have a clue what they
are actually reading. Anyone who is not a Bookshare volunteer will have no
idea what the words in the quotes means. How can they? If you are not told
something is an image or a caption, how are you to have any idea what you
are reading? I just don't get it.

 

Whether you're site reading, using a screen reader or braille, it leads to
mass confusion. I have to say that I had not seen the finished product of a
book processed through Benetech's Poet tool, but I certainly hope that there
is some way to let readers know that the words they run into are not part of
the text from the book. Descriptions should be easily understood to be a
picture description. Likewise, picture captions should be just as easily
understood to be a caption.

 

I think if we (Bookshare volunteers) keep this discussion up, we will
understand what the text we run into after we have finished really is. But
we have to remember we are not scanning and proofreading and using different
notations for various parts of a book just for our understanding. What we
put down on the page is going to be read by hundreds or thousands of
Bookshare subscribers. How can we expect them to know what they are reading
or listening to if we don't give them a cue with a simple word like "image"
or "caption"?

 

Poet will do whatever it does, but until then I think we have to let the
readers know just what it is they are reading.

 

Possibly just one man's opinion,

- Doug

 

From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott Rains
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:49 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual

 

This discussion is good for purposes of clarification. The consensus has
been that simpler and shorter is better thus avoidance of "image" after the
opening square bracket. 

 

At the same time, keep in mind that bracketed captions or image descriptions
inside the text will fade away. As we adopt the image description
methodology behind Benetech's Poet tool this material will no longer disrupt
the book text. It will be embedded in the .xml. That way the DAISY reader
can be set to show or hide the added material. Depending on the manufacturer
these third party products may or may not alert the reader with a phrase
like, "Start caption."

 

Scott Rains

Bookshare

To: "bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual

 

Hi, makes perfect sense to me. Call the thing what it is. If the caption is
a caption, why not just say "picture caption" to get rid of confusion?
Regards, Kim Friedman.

-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Maples
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 8:02 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: 'Scott Rains'
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Qustion on manual

I totally agree with Valerie. When I see something inside of brackets with
the image: at the beginning, I would just assume that whatever is inside of
quotes has something to do with the image description. I would never know
that was a caption. I firmly believe that the caption should have caption:
before it. Otherwise, how are you going to know?

 

- Doug

 

From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Valerie Maples
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 4:58 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Qustion on manual

 

Vivian mentioned she had found in the volunteer manual to simply enclose a
caption in quotes, as mentioned here:

 

https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/4.8+Y.+Format+for+image+description+ta
gs#4.8Y.Formatforimagedescriptiontags-formattouseforimagedescriptionswithcap
tions

 

The example given is:

 [image: A young boy in mid-air as he dives off a pier into a small lake.
Already in the water is an older man, standing and smiling.
"Having fun on hot days."]
 

But I have always done it like this:

 

 [image: A young boy in mid-air as he dives off a pier into a small lake.
Already in the water is an older man, standing and smiling.
caption: Having fun on hot days.]

 

I can develop new habits, but to me, the other is more clear, espcially if
the caption is a quote already in quotation marks.  Is there a reason for
the change?

 

Valerie 

 

Keep up with Nichole's recovery:
http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/nicholemaples 

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